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CONLANG  October 2001, Week 4

CONLANG October 2001, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Tasratal: sketch: connectives (long)

From:

Christophe Grandsire <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:09:16 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (234 lines)

En réponse à Yoon Ha Lee <[log in to unmask]>:

> Tasratal has two "classes" of words, connectives (particles or
> function
> words, I suppose) and substantives (everything else).  These
> categories
> aren't linguistic-formal, they're for my own peace of mind.
> Typologically
> I suppose this is agglutinating.

Or isolating?

  Both connectives and substantives
> tend
> to occur in "triads" or groups of three words clustered around an
> idea,
> though substantives in particular will probably have variances in terms
> of
> numbers-of-words-in-a-cluster.
>

I like the idea of triads. Certainly more original than the simple-opposite we
see so much.

>
> (See previous post for the phonology and romanization scheme.)
>
> "Existence":
> (existence)-demanded: txo
> (existence)-uncertain: ga
> (existence)-stated: nai
>
> Possible examples:
> "Yoon" txo ~= I *am* Yoon, dammit!
>                Yoon *will* exist!
> "Yoon" ga ~= Are you Yoon?
>               Is there a Yoon?
> "Yoon" nai ~= Yoon exists or is here.
>
> Note that <txo> can be used in a fashion similar (?) to the Japanese
> yo,
> <ga> in a fashion similar to Japanese ka.  (At least as I understand
> them.
> )
>

You could also say that "Yoon" ga could mean: I/you/he/she/it may be Yoon.
Depending on the tone of the sentence, it could well be a question or an
assertion of uncertainty.

> ===
>
> "Copula":
> location: at
> bearing-quality: xi
> identity: en
> (With apologies to Payne's discussion of copulas in _Describing
> Morphosyntax_ and _Conversational Japanese_.)
>

:)))

> Possible examples:
> "Yoon" "Stanford" at  (ACK!  That was *not* intentional...)
>                       ~= Yoon is at Stanford.
> "Yoon" "weird" xi ~= Yoon is weird.  (As if that were news.)
> "Yoon" en. ~= (I'm) Yoon.
>
> ===
>
> "Possessive":
> ownership: san
> share-of-status: al (non-ownership "possessive"?)
> dissociation: mei
>
> Possible examples:
> "Yoon" san "coat" ~= Yoon's coat (and it's mine, darnit!)
> "Yoon" san "sister" ~= Yoon's sister (it's not like I own her)
> "Yoon" san "Darth Vader" ~= Yoon has nothing to do with Darth Vader.
>                              (the point is arguable, but...)
>

:)) CHzang is gonna like this post :)
Hey, 'vader' in Dutch means father. Coincidence? (I never realized that,
because in French Darth Vader became Dark Vador - don't ask me why -)

> ===
>
> "Case":
> action-against: rau (opposing the object, i.e. "against its will")
> action-with: to
> action-toward: ge (toward the object, i.e. "with its consent")
> (You might say that the agent/actor is "default," hence unmarked.)
>
> Possible example:
> "Yoon" "damage" kyx "Darth Vader" rau "lightsaber" to
>       ~= Yoon hurt Darth Vader with a lightsaber.  (Don't she wish.)
> "Luke Skywalker" "Force" to "Princess Leia" ge "safety" kyx
>       ~= Luke Skywalker saved Princess Leia with the Force.
> (I hope I'm not inadvertently offending any Star Wars fans on this
> list.)
>

Offending anyone you're not, young apprentice. :))) (not that i'm much of a
Star Wars fan. I didn't even see the Phantom Menace)

> ===
>
> "With":
> unequal-harness: tsy
> side-by-side: xun
> apart: ken
>
> Possible Examples:
> "Han Solo" "Chewbacca" xun ~= Han Solo and Chewie (as equal partners)
> "Obi Wan" "Luke" tsy ~= Obi Wan (primary) and Luke (secondary)
> "Darth Vader" "Yoon" ken ~= Darth Vader and Yoon (totally separately
> and
>       individually)
>

I wonder what could be the use of ken. Why put together things that have
nothing to do together?

> ===
>
> "Causation":
> cause-despite: tem
> cause-casual: su
> cause-intended: kyx
>
> Notes: So far this is the grammatical workhorse of the language (until
> I
> realize how many things I can't figure out how to formulate with this
> pattern, anyway).  The language can be seen as essentially noun-based
> (nominal?):
> X caused Y to Z.  (X = Z is certainly possible.)
>
> Possible examples:
> "Yoon" "milk" rau "spill" tem-tau ~= Yoon spilled the milk (despite
> efforts not
>       to).
> "Yoon" "milk" rau "spill" su-tau ~= Yoon spilled the milk (in the course
> of
>       doing something else; it was an incidental side-effect).

A collateral damage is the new term IIRC :)) (sorry, very bad humour :(( )

> "Yoon" "milk" rau "spill" kyx-tau ~= Yoon spilled the milk (and she
> meant
> to).
>

That's mean! :)

Looks like you're making an All-Noun language. Was it Nicole Perrin who made
another one? (cannot remember the name though)

> ===
>
> "Change":
> denying-change: sepf (abbreviates to "sep" before another particle)
> accepting-change: lau
> untouched-by-change: ki
>
> "Denying" and "accepting" are a bit deceptive in terms of meaning, but
> I
> haven't figured out better terminology yet.
>
> "Yoon" "Darth Vader" ki-rau "harm" kyx ~= Yoon (tries to) hurt Darth
> Vader
> (who
>       is unaffected by her pathetic attempt and in fact doesn't even
> notice
> it).
> "Yoon" "Darth Vader" sep-rau "harm" kyx ~= Yoon (tries to) hurt Darth
> Vader
>       (who isn't going to stand for it, but gets nicked while
> evading).
> "Darth Vader" "Yoon" lau-rau "harm" kyx ~= Darth Vader hurts Yoon (and
> by
> golly,
>       she does get hurt).
>

I like the precision of the nuances this system gives.

> ===
>
> "Mood" (?):
> event-in-progress: rei
> event-hypothetical: mas
> event-settled: tau
>
> The nearest thing to tense.
> <rei> refers to something that's ongoing with respect to whatever frame
> of
> reference is being discussed.  Call it the progressive mood or aspect
> or
> whichever.
>
> <mas> refers to something uncertain: a dream, a work of fiction, a
> plan
> (past, present or future), a dubious historical "fact."
>

What's the difference with 'ga'? Or do you want to restrict 'ga' to questions?

> <tau> refers to something that (at least in the mind of the speaker) is
> a
> certainty--a future plan, a past event, a current action.
>
> Murkle.  I guess they're all mood/aspect, not tense at all...
>

Guess so to. Well, not that it makes it a problem. I love languages with only
aspect distinctions, not tense.

> ===
>
> "Comparative":
> decreasing/less: ru
> increasing/more: ro
> equilibrium/same: ffan
>

Could be also used for 'become (more/less/as)'? Just an idea.

Christophe.

http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr

Take your life as a movie: don\'t let anybody else play the leading role.

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January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
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January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
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November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
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January 2005, Week 3
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January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
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November 2004, Week 3
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August 2004, Week 5
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November 2003, Week 3
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October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
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June 2003, Week 5
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April 2003, Week 5
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April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
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December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 5
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March 2002, Week 5
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March 2002, Week 3
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January 2002, Week 5
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January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
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December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 3
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February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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November 1998, Week 3
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November 1998, Week 1
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