LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for SCUBA-L Archives


SCUBA-L Archives

SCUBA-L Archives


SCUBA-L@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

SCUBA-L Home

SCUBA-L Home

SCUBA-L  October 2001, Week 4

SCUBA-L October 2001, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Digital photo - warning long

From:

"john@home" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Scuba diving discussion list <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:14:40 +0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (177 lines)

If you are not into photo, I suggest that you delete this post now.
--------

Control, control control.
I wish I'd gone digital earlier - at least 6 months earlier.
There is already more control than with analog.

This post kind of addresses some of Hugh's issues. First let me say that if
you are an accomplished u/w slide photographer to the point where you "see"
exactly how a shot will process when you take it, I am not talking to you at
all. There is no reason for you to switch to digital, yet.

IMHO, It has taken digital a long time to build in quality to a point where
it became reasonable to use it recreationally underwater. I think it is
there now. I don't think it is for everyone, though. If you have no computer
experience, you may not like the learning curve of putting your photos on a
computer. If you are attached to the analog thing, then it is not even a
question - stick with analog. If you are in publishing, you will not be able
to avoid digital.

I have been doing analog a long time. I took my first photo class at 12
years old. It was the whole hog - roll your own film, dodge your own prints
sort of start. I got into 35mm stuff eventually using 3 Cannon bodies and a
number of lenses to do such mundane things as shoot race cars, rock concerts
and weddings. I'm glad to be done with that. I never look at those photos.
There are tons in storage.

Now, I do teach a HS class on Video Production, so my biases have switched.
I have long suffered through the shortcomings of analog video - enough so
that I would be willing to chuck the whole analog video kit for a nice
digital camera.

I would not call myself a novice, even though I am not very advanced in U/W
photo or the gear to support it. I do use a number of computers and this
might sway me too. At work, I edit video on some old SGI computers, plus
some flavors of Mac and Media 100. What this means is that I don't shy away
from what computers can accomplish one bit.

I switched to U/W digital still photos this summer.
I did not get a huge system - Sony Cybershot with the housing made by Sony
to 30M. They now have a new one to 40M with a new camera. During the
collection process the biggest issue is light - duh. You will need to solve
this with strobes or a video light or two.

So, I feel the minimum acceptable digital cameras are the 3 megapixel
models. I shoot mostly in jpeg and get 100 shots on a 128meg memory card. I
expect to take some TIFF's when I am more experienced in getting the shots
right. Tiff's are big, and slower to process. Format is a personal issue and
not a hindrance to fun u/w photography. I can not recall loosing anything of
value due to format changes. Most new software goes backwards.

Hugh is incorrect in thinking you need memory media to archive all your
shots. I have 10gigs of disc space on my laptop and an external 20 gig drive
that works independent of the computer. I can download from my camera to the
20 gig drive. The "working" memory I use is about 400megs. That's enough for
the 4 weeks of diving I did in July. I do delete many shots, though. This is
an advantage for sure. I am not processing anything I don't like. I can
delete underwater. With a CD burner, you can archive 650megs of photos for
about 30-90 cents.

One negative that support Hugh's arguments is it is optimal that you have  a
good computer system to use the pictures well. Most people have such systems
for work or home now a days. Although I don't own any, I clearly have access
through work.

I capture to a Mac laptop, adjust the photos in PhotoShop, and print on an
HP photo printer. Hugh is right in that this is not a small consideration if
you are starting from scratch. BTW, I also scan my old prints into
PhotoShop. I really like working my shots myself. Why pay a lab...

A few more advantages:
1) I can play my shots on the hotel TV right after the dive. Heck , I can
view my shots on the boat... Common post dive conversations go like, "Did
you see that purple fish? What was that?..Let me show you.."

I don't have to wait for the lab - when and if I can find one - to see my
shots.

2) I can play a slide show on my TV and record it on a video - real time and
have something to show and share.

3) My camera does QuickTime movies up to 15 seconds long with sound. I
treasure the Yap Mantas I have recorded in motion. That really takes you
back to the dive.

4) My camera has a web mode that makes low-res copies that can be uploaded
to my web page. They don't look great, but you get the idea.

Hugh wrote:
\Assuming
that I already owned a laptop that I could have downloaded these images to
at the end of the day, just how many SmartMedia cards would I have needed?\

One, but it should be the biggest one you can get. I use about 100 megs a
day. I don't open my camera on day boats. Here's a new one for Hugh; water,
salt, digital = bad things. I protect against that as best I can.

 But with media, Hugh assumes that he wanted to keep every shot. In 360
shots I would keep about 36 if I'm lucky. This effects the equation. But of
course, you would not use your smart cards for storage.

Hugh was right when he wrote:
Its not the cost of paper
and ink (although inkjet ink isn't all that cheap), the problem is that
you're comparing apples to oranges.

These really are not the same - analog and digital photo. But I can state
very confidently that if you are thinking of buying a low-end intro type u/w
camera - go straight to digital. You will learn more in one day with a
digital camera than you can learn on a whole trip of shooting slides. You
will be much more pleased with your pictures even if you are only watching
them on the TV. When you are tossing so many shots, the cost of media will
be less than processing. Actually the cost savings will pay for the camera
and housing kit. No doubt in my mind.

As far as printing goes:
To get really good prints in analog, I needed to go to the custom lab where
they process by hand and print every shot with a test strip. Although the
lab does the work, that process is even more difficult for me than using my
own computer. I have to communicate what I want on every shot to the
technician.

Now I use PhotoShop to make the corrections I desire. Boy that is nice.

On the analog side, the good camera gear can run run you well over $10k for
a kit that is only really useful underwater. If I didn't care about $10k, I
might get both digital and analog gear. The digital gear can be much more
versitile - and a be smaller travel kit. I bet I'd use the digital more.

In Yap, I did some dives with both my digital and my analog u/w kits. On the
same dive - yes. Weird, I know, but I wanted to compare quality. For me the
digital was better. This means I had more higher quality usable shots at the
end of the trip. This may also be due to the fact that I could take 100
shots per dive digital to 36 shots analog. Also, my analog u/w camera is a
Sealife with one external strobe - very intro but I've gotten some fun shots
with the macro kits.

Poe wrote:
I'm relatively terrified of how much resolution may be eventually necessary
for a high quality projected image :-).

Not a worry to me. I feel that the technology will keep pace with itself. I
heard that the common word on the street in that negatives are about 16
megapixel resolution. Right? Anyone know?

I've been told that CCD's are more receptive than film. To me, the
adjustments in low light are easier.

Hugh also wrote:
Thanks for mentioning this...I recall reading in one of my journals that
someone's production of CD-R's had had a major storagability problem...some
manufacturer's disk were showing significant losses after as little as one
year.

This is a very good point. Some CD's are horrible, some are great. The audio
collectors have done a good job at weeding out the bad ones. The CD-R mail
list is a great source if you get into those media issues. FYI, the cheap
Maxell's that they put on sale are almost useless.

quoted again, Marv this time:
In summary, for pro and semi-pro work, film remains a well tested archive
media.  I do believe professionals can recover deteriorated tracks in
digital media [magnetic tape, disks or CD ... with some effort and
cost].  For those priceless digital images and to keep archive and
retrieval process in my control, my practice is to make duplicate archive
copies [likelihood of the spontaneous deterioration hitting the same sector
is very small].

If you care a bunch about special archives for those 1 in 100 shots, you can
send them out to be printed to slide film. Seems a good idea.

I guess you can tell I like digital. The day I dread is when I find the next
latest greatest kit I really want - ouch! OTOH, My wife will love this
because she will get my current kit.

John

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

September 2016, Week 2
June 2016, Week 1
April 2016, Week 1
March 2015, Week 3
March 2015, Week 2
February 2015, Week 1
August 2014, Week 1
July 2014, Week 5
July 2014, Week 4
July 2014, Week 2
February 2014, Week 4
January 2014, Week 3
June 2013, Week 4
June 2013, Week 1
May 2013, Week 3
May 2013, Week 1
April 2013, Week 3
April 2013, Week 2
March 2013, Week 1
February 2013, Week 2
April 2012, Week 4
April 2012, Week 2
April 2012, Week 1
March 2012, Week 4
February 2012, Week 4
February 2012, Week 1
January 2012, Week 3
December 2011, Week 3
December 2011, Week 2
November 2011, Week 5
November 2011, Week 4
November 2011, Week 3
November 2011, Week 1
October 2011, Week 4
October 2011, Week 3
September 2011, Week 3
September 2011, Week 1
August 2011, Week 3
August 2011, Week 2
August 2011, Week 1
July 2011, Week 2
July 2011, Week 1
June 2011, Week 4
June 2011, Week 3
June 2011, Week 2
May 2011, Week 5
May 2011, Week 4
April 2011, Week 4
April 2011, Week 3
April 2011, Week 2
April 2011, Week 1
March 2011, Week 5
March 2011, Week 3
February 2011, Week 4
February 2011, Week 3
February 2011, Week 2
January 2011, Week 4
January 2011, Week 3
January 2011, Week 1
December 2010, Week 2
November 2010, Week 5
November 2010, Week 4
November 2010, Week 3
November 2010, Week 2
October 2010, Week 3
October 2010, Week 2
October 2010, Week 1
September 2010, Week 4
September 2010, Week 3
September 2010, Week 2
September 2010, Week 1
August 2010, Week 5
August 2010, Week 4
August 2010, Week 3
July 2010, Week 4
July 2010, Week 2
June 2010, Week 4
June 2010, Week 3
June 2010, Week 2
May 2010, Week 3
April 2010, Week 4
April 2010, Week 3
March 2010, Week 5
March 2010, Week 4
March 2010, Week 3
March 2010, Week 2
March 2010, Week 1
February 2010, Week 3
December 2009, Week 4
December 2009, Week 1
November 2009, Week 2
November 2009, Week 1
October 2009, Week 4
October 2009, Week 3
September 2009, Week 3
September 2009, Week 2
August 2009, Week 4
August 2009, Week 3
August 2009, Week 2
July 2009, Week 4
July 2009, Week 3
July 2009, Week 1
June 2009, Week 4
June 2009, Week 3
May 2009, Week 3
March 2009, Week 4
March 2009, Week 1
February 2009, Week 2
January 2009, Week 4
December 2008, Week 4
December 2008, Week 3
December 2008, Week 2
December 2008, Week 1
November 2008, Week 4
October 2008, Week 3
October 2008, Week 1
September 2008, Week 5
August 2008, Week 4
August 2008, Week 3
August 2008, Week 2
July 2008, Week 4
July 2008, Week 3
July 2008, Week 1
June 2008, Week 4
June 2008, Week 2
June 2008, Week 1
May 2008, Week 4
May 2008, Week 2
April 2008, Week 4
April 2008, Week 3
April 2008, Week 1
March 2008, Week 3
March 2008, Week 1
February 2008, Week 4
February 2008, Week 2
January 2008, Week 3
December 2007, Week 2
November 2007, Week 3
November 2007, Week 2
November 2007, Week 1
October 2007, Week 1
September 2007, Week 4
September 2007, Week 3
July 2007, Week 4
July 2007, Week 3
July 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 4
June 2007, Week 3
June 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 1
May 2007, Week 5
November 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager