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AUXLANG  November 2001, Week 1

AUXLANG November 2001, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Introducing Lapsi (reply to Risto)

From:

Daniel44 <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 6 Nov 2001 19:00:05 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (173 lines)

Hei Risto,

Thanks for the input!

The reason that back vowels are removed for the verb form, is that otherwise
things get messy: if it were 'luupitaa' for 'to sing', then you remove
'-taa' and add 'an' and get 'luupian' for 'I sing'. I don't think there is
much problem with a student learning the verb 'luptaa' to sing, the word
'luupi' meaning bird, seeing the connection between the two words, and using
the connection as a way of remembering both words.

Nouns are distinct from verbs in Lapsi with the use of doubled vowels or
consonants. So luupi becomes luptaa as a verb and maa becomes mattaa. Kekko
becomes kektaa. Of course, the learner will not be able automatically to
work out the noun from looking at the verb. Lapsi is not as regular and
scientific as for example Esperanto in this respect. But it is arguably more
'natural' looking, whilst remaining fairly simple to learn.

Yes, Lapsi is not the Finnic Interlingua. I never intended it to be. I don't
know enough of any of the Finno-Ugric languages to make it so. And at the
same time, I want to make Lapsi as neutral as possible. I'm pleased you
recognised some of the words though :)

The 'y' sound has been a long running controversy - but there is a
difference between 'u' and 'oo' ('y'). Quite simply, 'y' is a long sound,
'u' is a short one.

I know that deriving words for 'flower' and even 'path' from the verb 'to
live' is controversial, but I think it makes enough sense to be viable. It
lends the language character and its own uniqueness. Many countries and
religions make a connection between flowers and life. The word 'Tao' (which
I think is Chinese) means both 'path' and 'the flow/way of life'. So I am
not making these connections from nowhere. Again, if the learner doesn't see
the connection straight away, they learn to see it, and then it will stay
with them always.

Cats do a lot more than purr and miaow, you are right. By the way, 'Mirktaa'
would mean both 'to purr' and 'to miaow'. The verb is used when an animal or
person other than a cat makes such a noise: 'soika mirki janijanilla' - the
person purred with happiness.  When cats make their native noise, or birds
or bears, or dogs, Lapsi uses a standard verb meaning 'to make their native
noise'. I'm still deciding on what that verb should be...

Such verbs as 'to cat' or 'to bear' or 'to dog' would indeed be
incomprehensible in most languages, were there no rule for such verbs. But
there is such a rule in Lapsi. Such verbs always indicate the noise commonly
attributed to those animals. So 'to dog' means 'to bark' and 'to bear' means
'to growl'. Rules such as these help to reduce the vocab-learning burden for
the beginner to Lapsi.

PS: You will be glad to know that adjectives in Lapsi mostly end in '-inen'.
So 'ristinen' means 'sad' in Lapsi!

Varijanilla,

Daniel
[log in to unmask]




----- Original Message -----
From: "Risto Kupsala" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 6:05 PM
Subject: Introducing Lapsi


> Daniel44 wrote:
>
> > Finnish's (and therefore Lapsi's) primary advantages include:
> >
> > 1. Regularity of grammar and spelling
> > 2. Phoneticity
> > 3. vowel-rich
> > 4. distinctive
>
> These are all admirable traits.
>
> > First, here is an example of Lapsi:
> >
> > 'Kalmenensta tulinne jalinajen jo tohtoren, puhtaa soikentin
> > yhti kohtatto uusi halomaanella.'
>
> Obviously Lapsi isn't the Interlingua of the Finno-Ugric because i
understood only 3 word from it (and misuderstood 1)!
>
> > Future tense is indicated by use of the verb 'lehtaa - to go'.
> > E.g: 'lehan haltaa - i will want'.
>
> In Finnish the future tense would be indicated by "tulla" = to come.
Normally it's not indicated at all.
>
> > Conditional tense is indicated with the infix -isi- eg:
> > 'halaisin - i would want'.
>
> In Finnish: halaisin = i would hug. :-)
>
> > Pronunciation is largely identical to Finnish (except perhaps
> > 'y' which is pronounced like 'ui' in 'suit' or 'oo' in 'boot',
> > but not 'u' in 'put').
>
> Personally i didn't know that the vowels in "boot" and "put" are
pronounced differently. I just can't hear it! So if i ever will learn to
speak Lapsi i had better to stick to the Finnish Y.
>
> > Months of the year end in 'meno' meaning 'month' or literally
> > 'moon'. Vettameno - January (lit. water-moon - January is the
> > month of Aquarius)
>
> In Finnish the months have some logical meanings like "kesäkuu" = summer
month and "joulukuu" = Christmas month. Unfortunately many names of months
are derived from some old Finnish words which aren't part of the customary
parlance anymore.
>
> > Lapsi is very derivative:
> >
> > 'hantaa - to live'
> > hanojan - life (-ojan indicates abstract)
> > hanto - flower
> > hano - path
>
> Derivating is a good idea if it is implemented logically. The logic is
necessary so that everybody (not only the creator of the language) is able
to derive the same words from the same root word.
>
> > There are often connections between verbs and nouns:
> >
> > 'mirktaa - to purr'  - mirko (cat)
> > 'luptaa' - to sing - luupi (bird)  - <singer would be 'lupaja'>
>
> I doubt that there is a characteristic verb for animals. A cat does many
other things in addition to purring. So i wonder, why purring is more
characteristic to cats than meaowing?
> In my opinion the connections between verbs and nouns should be limited.
Only nouns that describe actions are suitable base for verbs. An English
example: "a walk - to walk". However, the connection: "a cat - to cat"
doesn't exist. Even if that kind of connection would exist, it's meaning
would be incomprehensible to most people. I give you a Finnish example:
> "Auto" is a car so "autoilla" is quite logically "to drive a car".
> "Miekka" is a sword so "miekkailla" is, as you probably already guessed,
"to fight with sword, to fence".
> "Koira" is a dog. Can you guess what the verb "koirailla" means? You can
have as many tries as you want. The answer is on the bottom of this letter.
>
> In addition, it seems like the backwards derivation is impossible. The
last vowel gets lost in the derivation. It happens often in the natural
languages and it is acceptable because the native speakers already know all
the words and are familiar with all the irregularities. But it's not
acceptable in _logical_ constructed languages! The novice language learner
should be able to remove all the affixes from the affixed word and only the
_correct_ and complete root would remain.
> So instead of "luuptaa" and "mirktaa" should be "luupi+taa = luupitaa" and
"mirko+taa = mirkotaa".
> This is intended to be a constructive critique. I have designed a language
myself and there are many pitfalls on the way before finishing the project.
>
> Regards,
>   Risto Kupsala
>
>
> Here's the answer:
> koirailla = to trick, to prank, to make a practical joke
>
> -
> Sunpoint.net antaa vihjeen:
>
> Osoitteesta www.sunpoint.net löydät riittävästi sopivan kokoisia
operaattorilogoja komistamaan matkapuhelimesi näyttöä.
>
http://www.sunpoint.net/SunAds/click.htm?mode=footer&id=46&jump=http%3A%2F%2
Fwww.sunpoint.net%2Flogo%

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February 2001, Week 1
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December 2000, Week 5
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December 2000, Week 3
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October 2000, Week 1
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December 1999, Week 5
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