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AUXLANG  November 2001, Week 1

AUXLANG November 2001, Week 1

Subject:

Getting Along (for Jay)

From:

Thomas Alexander <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 1 Nov 2001 19:12:40 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (101 lines)

Hi Jay,
        I was hoping someone would pick up where I left off -
perhaps someone who had seen the "Anglaj Prepozicoj" booklet
or something else that I may have mentioned.  I took a closer
look at Being Colloquial in Esperanto.  It's organized mainly
by Esperanto grammar (e.g. several examples of sentences with
"ajn" in them) and not English grammar (e.g. several examples
of sentences with apostrophe-S in them.)  Is this what you mean
by "such treatment" (i.e. a list of compared sentences organized
by the grammar of the natlang)?
        Thanks for forwarding the info on my Ido dictionary.  It's
a pretty cool piece of IAL-history and I'd prefer to see it in the
hands of someone who would appreciate it.  It doesn't suit my own
needs because it's not two-way and it's hard to thumb through because
it's old.

> As for your notes, could i ask you to briefly summarize them,
> as i dont still have them in my intray.  Multa danki.
        Sure, but I won't promise that it will be brief  :-)
It was mostly my last few notes in the "getting along" thread,
which was a reply to the "Rapprochement?" note which you posted.
The general idea was the following question: How is your recent
"strategic" overture to the Esperantists different from what has
been said before, and what's in it for the Esperantists. Since
writing the notes in question, I read the following in "Kiel
kompreni la lingvon Idon" [sic].

        Uniono inter la Esperanto-movado e la Ido-linguo esus maxim
        bona. La mondo regardas Esperanto e vidas ulo stranja e
        nekomprenebla. La mondo, plu facile en la formo di Ido,
        aceptus la ideo quan Esperanto reprezentas.

        So the idea that Esperanto would benefit by working with
other languages or reforms is not new.  The people who did reply
to my notes basically said that the chief benefit for the Esperantists
would receive for "working together" would be that they wouldn't
have to speak Esperanto.  I hope that it's not necessary to say
that I don't find this much of a motivation.
        Lojbab did mention one potential motivation - and that's
that "Divided, we end up wasting time that could be spent producing
materials in our respective languages and thereby PROVING them to be
useful" and that the "non-productive and demeaning flamewars [...]
would go away".

        I definitely think it's best to explore common ground more
than differences, and so I'm a bit at a loss about what to do with
the summary I wrote after reading and thinking about the text "Is
Esperanto Really So Easy" from UMI's web page (an essay which Martin
Lavallée and Kjell R spoke out against on this list over three years
ago but is still on UMI's page).  I tried to reply in such a way that
wouldn't escalate "flame wars", but I half wonder if I should just
keep it to myself.
        My own thoughts on Ido is that as long as an Idist isn't
openly bashing Esperanto, his interest in Ido can only help Esperanto,
but perhaps not for the reasons he may think.
        Speaking of "openly bashing", my son (not quite two) recently
started saying the word "Ido."  Fearing that word of this might get
out to the general public, we encouraged him to say "Ido bleah!"  Now,
if you ask him to say something in Ido, he'll say something like
"bleah", "no Ido", or "Ido bleah!"  :-)

Here's part of one of my original notes:
> I asked whether the non-Esperanto auxiliary language movement is
> really so big so that it could contribute to a "unified movement"
> in proportion to the contributions which would come from Esperanto.
[the general answer was that they would not contribute numbers, but
would save the Esperantists from having to speak Esperanto.]
> [... James] seems to be saying that in spite of huge disagreements
> with some of the details of Esperanto, he's come to the conclusion
> that it is worth putting these disagreements asside to take
> advantage of the comparative strength [size] of the Esperanto
> movement.

I also wrote:
> Vi pravas pri la angla, sed miaopinie estas pli granda
> diferenco inter la angla kaj Esperanto, ol inter Esperanto kaj
> ekzemple Ido.  Eble James devus proponi ke Ido [aux Esperanto]
> metu flanken la diferencojn kun la movado por la disvastigxo
> de la angla.  Kompreneble, mi sxercas, sed se ni, oni demandus
> same - kial la "anglistoj" konsentus kun tia propono?  Kion ili
> ricevus de kunlaboro kun la idistoj aux ecx kun la esperantistoj?

I was also wondering what you thought about this, which I
wrote to Chris Burd:
> [Are you saying that] from your viewpoint, James's proposal
> boils down to "the Esperantists should stop promoting Esperanto."

You had written:
> > We have a situation where no one group holds all
> > the cards it needs: the espists have the numbers
> > and resources, others have, in my view, better
> > languages.  I think there is probably more to be
> > gained by working together than by persisting in
> > the belief that one movement can defeat all the
> > others and carry the day.
        Depending on how one looks at this, it doesn't
really seem very much different from the lines which
I quoted from the article "Kiel kompreni la lingvon Idon."

Thomas

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January 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 3
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December 2002, Week 5
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October 2002, Week 5
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March 2002, Week 1
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January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
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November 2001, Week 1
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March 2001, Week 1
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February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
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December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
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December 2000, Week 1
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November 2000, Week 3
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November 2000, Week 1
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March 2000, Week 3
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March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
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February 2000, Week 1
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December 1998, Week 5
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June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
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April 1998, Week 5
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April 1998, Week 3
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April 1998, Week 1
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