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AUXLANG  December 2001, Week 1

AUXLANG December 2001, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Eo affixes: lernejoj, vortaroj kaj flugiloj

From:

"Donald J. HARLOW" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 2 Dec 2001 16:11:52 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (260 lines)

Je 07.52 ptm 2001.12.02 -0300, Daniel CASTRO LANDEIRA skribis
>    Esperanto affixes are often mentioned as being very useful to two
>purposes: 1) when we find an unknown compound word, we can deduce its
>meaning from its root and affixes; 2) with a minimum knowledge of the
>language, a beginner can produce a lot of new words by assembling the
>proper root(s) and affix(es).
>
> >From "Teach Yourself Esperanto", introductory lesson:
>    "The vocabulary gave Zamenhof many sleepless nights until he found a
>brilliant solution. He hit upon the idea of carrying the principle of
>_Affixes_ through to its logical conclusion. The result was that an
>Esperanto dictionary is only one-tenth the size of one in a national
>language."
>
>My little Esperanto-Spanish dictionary is even more optimistic:
>    "We have compiled some 10,000 roots, of which an average educated
>person knows beforehand 75%. With each root, by means of affixes and
>other roots, 20 additional words can be formed, and so this little
>dictionary is equivalent to another of a natural language with 200,000
>entries and a size 20 to 30 times larger."
>
>    Even taking the lower estimate (TYE), in order to affirm that an
>Esperanto dictionary is 1/10 the size of one in a national language the
>following two assertions must be simultaneously true:
>    1) for each root, by means of prefixes and suffixes, an average of
>other 10 words can be constructed.
>    2) the meaning of a compound word can be clearly deduced from its
>root and affixes (if not, it has to be entered in the dictionary as an
>independent word, with its definition or translation).
>
>    As to the first hypothesis, I think it is somewhat exaggerated.
>Though the total number of prefixes and suffixes is over 30, only a
>small part of them can be added to each particular root to compose a
>word that makes sense.
>    Let's take the root "pord-" (door). I can find no prefix, and only
>five (not 10, let alone 20) suffixes that can be added to it, to form
>the words
>
>    pordego, pordeto, pordac^o, pordejo, pordisto
>
>    It's impossible to think of "words" like *bopordo (a door-in-law),
>*ekspordo (a door which was dismissed from office), *pordino (a door of
>feminine gender) or *pordido (the offspring of a pordo and a *pordino).
>So, the supposedly enormous power of affixes in word formation is not
>really so big.

To the contrary, the first hypothesis is generally _understated_. You err
in several ways in your assumptions:

(1) While I would have trouble figuring out a *bopordo or a *pordino
myself, you've missed words like "mispordo" (open it and end up in the
septic tank!) or "pordulo" (which is _not_ the same as "pordisto");
furthermore, I can easily see using "ekspordo" (now it's part of a wall in
somebody's shack) and "pordido" (which does not need to have two parents,
any more than a "muskido" would). (*)

(2) You've also assumed that each affix can be used only in isolation from
other affixes. You ignore other words such as "pordegacxo" or "pordacxego"
(more or less the same thing, actually) and their -ET- equivalents,
"pordistejo" and "pordejisto" (not the same thing), etc.

You _did_ choose a word that it's relatively difficult to come up with
examples for (but I think we're close to ten here, without even trying);
perhaps you did this because you are a "pordemulo". This is generally true
of object roots. Attribute roots and action roots (or adjective and verb
roots, to use the usual grammatical shorthand) are much easier to devise
multiple compounds for. This being a Day of Rest, I refuse to do so myself,
and will simply give Z's example from the Ekzercaro, taken from the root
"san'":

sano
sana
sane
sani
sanu
saniga
saneco
sanilo
sanigi
sanigxi
sanejo
sanisto
sanulo
malsano
malsana
malsane
malsani
malsanulo
malsaniga
malsanigxi
malsaneta
malsanema
malsanulejo
malsanulisto
malsanero
malsaneraro (ah, the stuff of puns!)
sanigebla
sanigisto
sanigilo
resanigi
resanigxanto
sanigilejo
sanigejo
malsanemulo
sanilaro
malsanaro
malsanulido
nesana
malsanado
sanulajxo
malsaneco
malsanemeco
saniginda
sanilujo
sanigilujo
remalsano
remalsanigxo
malsanulino
sanigista
sanigilista
sanilista
malsanulista
k.t.p.



>    As to the second hypothesis, not always the meaning of a (prefix +
>root) or (root + suffix) word can be unmistakably deduced from its
>components.
>    Let's consider the word "lernejo". From "lern-" (to learn) and "-ejo"
>(the place, usually a building, where the action indicated by the root
>is commonly performed), we obtain the vague signification "place for
>learning". But this can mean anything from the Sorbonne to the school
>where we learn how to drive a car. So, the word _lernejo_ had to
>specialize its meaning as "elementary school, the institution where boys
>and girls from approximately 6 to 12 years old receive basic education",
>and new words like "universitato" had to be introduced.
>    Thus, the correct meaning of "lernejo" does not come immediately from
>"lern-" and "-ejo". The phrase
>
>C^ivespere mi iros al la lernejo
>
>sounds strange if said by a 23-year-old University student, but this is
>due to the fact that "lernejo" is not just the sum of _lern + ejo_, and
>in a bilingual dictionary it has to be entered as an independent word
>with the translation "elementary school".

But in fact "lernejo" is a perfectly good word for a place of learning, and
the fact that when a five-year-old says "mi nun iros al la lernejo" and
when a 23-year-old says it they're talking about different places is pretty
standard in human communication. That's why we have ways of adding
information when we don't trust context: "mi iros al la elementa lernejo",
"mi iros al la mezlernejo", "mi iros al la altlernejo".

>    Another word well known to every student of Esperanto, even to a
>beginner, is "vortaro" (for those who haven't yet begun, it's a
>dictionary). But is the meaning of "vortaro" immediate deducible from
>those of "vorto" and "-aro"?
>
>    This little test could be performed: take a person without any
>knowledge of Esperanto and give to him/her the following explanation:
>"In Esperanto, the suffix -aro denotes a group or collection of the
>beings or objects indicated by the root. For example, _s^afo_ is a sheep
>and _s^afaro_ is a flock of sheep. Well, _vorto_ means 'word'. What do
>you suppose that _vortaro_ means?"
>
>    Do you think that the answer "Obvious! It's a dictionary!" will be
>frequently heard? Let me doubt about it.
>
>    First of all, _vorto_ can be understood both as a _pronounced_ and as
>a _written_ word. So I think common guesses about the meaning of
>"vortaro" (literally, a group of words) could be "phrase, sentence",
>"paragraph" and "speech".
>
>    Of course we know the origin of "vortaro". Probably Zamenhof got
>inspired in the Russian model, which he knew well: "slovo" is a word and
>"slovar" is a dictionary. So he must have applied the following
>"mathematical proportion":
>
>Slovo is to slovar as vorto is to x
>
>    Solving, we get x = vortaro (with the -o for noun endings)
>
>    There is only one minor problem; one should be able to study
>Esperanto without knowing anything of Russian. Therefore, "vortaro"
>isn't a transparent compound. A better choice would have been *vortlibro
>(book of words), as German _W÷rterbuch_ or Swedish _ordbok_.

Sorry. He borrowed -AR- from Latin (librarium etc.); "slovar'" was a
supporting word.

The nice thing about Esperanto is that if you don't like "vortaro" in its
standard meaning (and I have seen it used otherwise, myself), you can
always create your own and be immediately understood. I think "vortarlibro"
might be better than "vortlibro", however.

>    An analogous case is that of "flugilo" (also known to beginners, if
>the Esperanto hymn is soon taught to them: Per flugiloj de facila
>vento...). But let's perform again the test mentioned above with the
>same or another person, this time telling the subject the following:
>"In Esperanto, the suffix -ilo denotes the device, instrument or
>apparatus by means of which the action indicated by the root is usually
>performed. For example, _komputi_ means "to compute" and _komputilo_ is
>a computer. Well, the verb _flugi_ means "to fly". What do you suppose
>that _flugilo_ means?"
>
>    Don't you agree that over 95% of the answers would be "an airplane or
>some other type of aircraft"? (In 1887, "an aerostatic balloon"). Sorry,
>your answer was incorrect. Flugilo means "wing".
>
>    Once again, we know the reason for this: _flugilo_ is also a calque,
>this time from German: _Flug_ is a flight and _FlŘgel_ is a wing. But
>what if the Esperanto student doesn't know German at all? Should he/she
>be blamed for thinking that "flugilo" is an airplane?
>
>   So, something is wrong with the -ilo suffix. To avoid the singularity
>of "flugilo" we could establish that -ilo has two meanings (in fact,
>-ujo has, or at least had, three: container, country and tree), the
>second one being "the part of an animal's body by means of which the
>action indicated by the root is performed"; doing so, _flugilo_ 'wing'
>becomes a regular formation, but this little trick fails again: we are
>not allowed to coin words like *vidilo (eye) or *au^dilo (ear).
>
>    The conclusion we can draw is that _flugilo_ is an exception to the
>rule which determines the meaning of the -ilo suffix. (If such thing as
>"exception to an Esperanto rule" may be said without risk of being
>condemned to the eternal fire).

Strangely, I have never run across anyone who made this mistake in
understanding "flugilo". Limited exposure on my part, I guess.

By the way, who says that you are not allowed to coin words like "vidilo"
or "auxdilo"? If you can't think of "okulo" and "orelo", these are
perfectly legitimate ways of expressing the same idea; they just aren't
generally used.

>    With apologies for so a long message, and hoping not to have been too
>aggressive to Esperantists,

Ah, well, I think we will survive.

---

(*) The day my wife succeeds in convincing me to cut a doggie door in the
bottom of our back door, that will be, pretty obviously, a "pordido".


-- Don HARLOW
http://www.webcom.com/~donh/don/don.html

Pasis longa voj'
Iri Ši tien de for;
Pasis longa temp',
Sed alvenas mia hor' ...

Se vi serŠas...
   Novelojn, http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Noveloj/
   Poemojn, http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Poezio/
   Recenzojn, http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Recenzoj/

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February 2007, Week 3
February 2007, Week 2
February 2007, Week 1
January 2007, Week 5
January 2007, Week 4
January 2007, Week 3
January 2007, Week 2
January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
August 2006, Week 2
August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
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October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
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September 1998, Week 1
August 1998, Week 4
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August 1998, Week 1
July 1998, Week 5
July 1998, Week 4
July 1998, Week 3
July 1998, Week 2
July 1998, Week 1
June 1998, Week 5
June 1998, Week 4
June 1998, Week 3
June 1998, Week 2
June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
May 1998, Week 2
May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 5
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
December 1997, Week 2
December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 5
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
November 1997, Week 2
November 1997, Week 1
October 1997, Week 5
October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
October 1997, Week 2
October 1997, Week 1
September 1997, Week 5
September 1997, Week 4
September 1997, Week 3
September 1997, Week 2
September 1997, Week 1
August 1997, Week 5
August 1997, Week 4
August 1997, Week 3
August 1997, Week 2
August 1997, Week 1
July 1997, Week 5
July 1997, Week 4
July 1997, Week 3
July 1997, Week 2
July 1997, Week 1
June 1997, Week 5
June 1997, Week 4
June 1997, Week 3
June 1997, Week 2
June 1997, Week 1
May 1997, Week 5
May 1997, Week 4
May 1997, Week 3
May 1997, Week 2
May 1997, Week 1
April 1997, Week 5
April 1997, Week 4
April 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 2
April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 5
February 1997, Week 4
February 1997, Week 3
February 1997, Week 2
February 1997, Week 1

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