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AUXLANG  December 2001, Week 1

AUXLANG December 2001, Week 1

Subject:

Re: laguage and human life

From:

"Donald J. HARLOW" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:12:10 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (92 lines)

Je 09.38 atm 2001.12.06 +1100, SU Chengzhong skribis

>Leo Moser wrote: >How would you measure informational
>>input/output? Is it's flow-rate established
>>by the nature of each individual language
>>(and is thus capable of increase if language
>>is improved)? Or does the flow-rate reflect
>>the nature of the human mind (and is thus
>>limited by our very nature as a biological
>>species)?
>Answer: I think you mean the computer input /output system. Indeed currently
>the tone languages have a slower input system than English. but we must
>thing about what happened during last century. At the begining of last
>century, Chinese scholar believe charactor would change to letters, as it's
>too hard for printing industry and without a good printing industry,
>education would be impossible. As the computer have been invented, no body
>say this again.

Why does this sound so familiar to an Esperanto speaker?

>Instead they argue about input system too slow, did they
>ever think about what if some one find a oral speaking input system? It will
>let the input speed faster than English, for every single oral action a tone
>language put in a consonant, a vowel and a tone, while the English just put
>in a consonant and a vowel. As for the output system I don't regard any
>problem.

I once calculated that a properly designed keyboard based on a variant of
Huffman coding would allow Chinese data to be input at a rate about twice
that of English. The downside is that you would have to be very, very
competent to actually _use_ the system; beginners' hunt-and-peck would have
serious problems, which is not the problem with an alphabetical language.

>>>There are plenty languages have more tones
>>>than mandarin does, but the rules of speak may be not so simple as
>>>mandarin.
>>>Every tone language have their problems. But still more the memory issue
>>>is
>>>fatal to English.
>>
>>I'd like more information on your views on
>>this point. Are you referring to size of
>>the English vocabulary? The number or nature
>>of English phonemes? Or what?
>>
>>Any list of the defects of English as you
>>see them would be greatly appreciated.
>
>>The above site does not seem to be usable.
>>
>>At least, I cannot get it.
>>
>>Very best regards,                 LEO
>Answer: Well if you can't open that page the best answer would be: no matter
>how many syllable or 'phonetic types' English have. A tone language speaker
>can always give at leat four time such numerous sound units by change the
>first CV of such sound units. And with more sound units, all the words would
>be shortened, with shortened words, it's much easy to compose new words.
>Suppose, we assign pi=pig, mi=mean, then we may remove the word 'pork' from
>English vocabulary, instead with pimi.

Let me make a counter-suggestion. Instead of having short words ending in
vowels and containing tones, allow additional words that end in consonants.
This would give you even more choices (with relatively short words) than tones.

>I can prove all the current one million English words just created by few
>thousand of these shortened words. That means once we learnt all the few
>thousands words, it would be equal that we learnt all the one million words.
>Further more, no body can learn more than three hundred thousands words in
>life time Shakespea and Churcill just have thirty thousands words, and as
>the English words going up towards two million, what would happened to a
>English speaker?

I am sure that Leo, who has already had something to say about the myth of
agglutination, will have something to say about this idea (which has
already been implemented elsewhere, including -- though not very well! --
in Basic English).


-- Don HARLOW
http://www.webcom.com/~donh/don/don.html

Pasis longa voj'
Iri ĉi tien de for;
Pasis longa temp',
Sed alvenas mia hor' ...

Se vi serĉas...
   Novelojn, http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Noveloj/
   Poemojn, http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Poezio/
   Recenzojn, http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Recenzoj/

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