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AUXLANG Home

AUXLANG Home

AUXLANG  December 2001, Week 1

AUXLANG December 2001, Week 1

Subject:

Re: laguage and human life

From:

"Donald J. HARLOW" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 6 Dec 2001 17:01:22 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (166 lines)

Je 02.37 atm 2001.12.07 +0200, Risto KUPSALA skribis
>Cheng Zhong Su wrote:
> > Answer: With an additional consonant means a more action
> > of mouth, and it prolong the information exchanging time.
> > Suppose millions such delay will cause the exchanging
> > speed very slow.
>
>But you can always speak faster, can't you? Besides, it's
>not only the length of words that matter. Some grammars
>are more conscise than some others. In Chinese you would
>say "yi ge ren" whereas the same in English is shortly
>"one man". Chinese loses 1 syllable here.
>
>So you lose 1/3 of your life speaking Chinese instead of
>English? What a waste! (Note the irony!)
>
>The question is: what's the hurry? Languages don't have
>to be concise. My native language Finnish is famous of
>its long words. And we are slow speakers too. Still many
>people find enough time to slip some curses between every
>other word - even though they don't add any valuable
>information. Not even the mood of aggression because they
>are all too common here.

This is pretty much where I am coming from, too. Do we _need_ to think
faster? Frankly, I've gotten a little doubtful about this over the years.
One of the advantages of thinking slowly is that you have time to
_rethink_. We can all see the problems of the ability to react quickly in
watching discussions on the internet. And I think we've all discovered that
second thoughts are perhaps better than the first ones.

I've also watched what happened as fast-thinking computers were brought
on-line to do jobs that had been done by humans before; to use an analogy
from physics, the amplitude of near-resonance shot way up because of a loss
of damping, which had previously been in place because of relatively slow
thought in human beings. A good example was the near meltdown on Wall
Street in 1987, when new computer programs started dumping stock right and
left. After that, they had to install software not to slow down the
computers but to actually turn them off under certain conditions, or so I
understand.

I'd rather think slowly and well than fast and poorly.

You write in your posting on "My Theory of Languages" (note: it's not just
that a few people couldn't open your page [which apparently was accessibly
only to those with Microsoft Word installed, in any case] but that, at
least as far as your server was concerned, neither that page nor any other
at that site was there at all):

>                         Law and Function of All Languages
>                                                 Su Cheng Zhong
>
>                                                   Abstract
>     The fatal drawback of English is that by the increasing of the numerous
>words, no body can learn a certain fraction of them during lifetime. The
>second problem of English is the thinking speed is not among the fast one of
>the world. This article is going to solve these issues by introduce the
>¡®Language Law¡¯. Once the reform take place, every English speaker¡¯s
>vocabulary will increase several times without further learning, and the
>thinking speed will be going up too.

You really ought to address one issue at a time, because these are two very
different issues, and different people will have quite different attitudes
about them _as issues_. For instance, I agree with you about the number of
words in English; but there is a chap named Josef at europa.linguas who
claims to actually _prefer_ languages with huge numbers of individual words
to be memorized (and he uses Chinese as one of his examples) -- he
certainly would not agree that this is a problem, much less a "fatal
drawback". And the same people (like me) who agree with you on the first
problem may well disagree on the second. For one thing, it is not clear
that English speakers have slower thinking processes than Chinese speakers
(after all, it was a Chinese-speaking pilot who succeeded in colliding with
an English-speaking pilot's aircraft, not vice versa). For another, it is
not clear that speed of thought is a real problem for most of us.

Let's also take a look at your table -- but only in terms of the first
question point.

>Then we have this table:
>        Pig=pi  Cattle=ca       Sheep=she       Horse=hor       Donkey=don
>        Deer=de
>Meat=me pime    came    sheme   horme   donme   deme
>Meat    Pork    beef    mutton                  venison

Esperanto suffix -aj^-

>Grease=re       pire    care    shere   horre   donre   dere
>Grease  Lard    tallow  suet

Esperanto agglutination of one word with another (bovgraso, sxafgraso,
cxevalgraso, etc.)

>Hair=hai        pihai   cahai   shehai  horhai  donhai  dehai
>Hair    Bristle ox hair wool

Ditto

>Young=you       youpi   youca   youshe  youhor  youdon  youde
>Young   Piglet  calf    lamb    fawn

Esperanto suffix -id-

>Male=ma mapi    maca    mashe   mahor   madon   made
>Male    Boar    bull    ram     stallion        jack ass        stag

Esperanto prefix vir- (or, for some, neosuffix -ic^-)

>Female=fe       fepi    feca    feshe   fehor   fedon   fede
>Female  Sow     cow     ewe     mare    jenny ass       doe

Esperanto suffix -in-

>Wild=wi wipi    wica    wishe   wihor   widon
>Wild    Boar    buffalo goat    mustang kiang

Esperanto adjective "sovag^a" (sometimes used in this context as a prefix
sovag^-)

>Castrate=ca     capi    caca    cashe   cahor   cadon
>Castrate        Hog     bullock wether  geld

Esperanto adjective "kastrita" (Eichholz has proposed the suffix -uk-,
presumably from the term eu^nuko).

So -- been there, done that. Nor has Esperanto been the first language to
handle these words in such a way (Volapu"k did much the same), nor the last.

Obviously, Esperanto does not address your second point; it reduces the
number of words to be learned (pace Leo et al), but does nothing about
reducing the size of those to be learned in order to increase thinking
speed. But is an increase in thinking speed (a) possible or (b) even desirable?


-- Don HARLOW
http://www.webcom.com/~donh/don/don.html

Pasis longa voj'
Iri æi tien de for;
Pasis longa temp',
Sed alvenas mia hor' ...

Por la jarfina sezono, legu kaj øuu:
     http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/Literaturo/Noveloj/mortigadis_leporon.html
-- Vana V., Kiel Ni Mortigadis Leporon por la Antaýkristnaska Vespermanøo,
humura novelo pri la nokto antaý la Kristnasko...
     http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/Literaturo/Noveloj/magi.html -- O.
Henry, La Donaco de la Magoj, novelo pri oferado por la amat(in)o
     http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/LiteraturoRevuoj/lm/1947/donaco_magoj.html
-- Se vi deziras alian version de la sama rakonto, jen la traduko de Sachio OKA
     http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/Literaturo/Poezio/kristnaskaj_kanzonoj.html
-- Ok tradiciaj Kristnaskaj Kanzonoj
     http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/Literaturo/Revuoj/nlr/nlr12/amikinoj.html
-- Tomaþ Pumpr, Letero al Malgrandaj Amikinoj, Kristnaska letero
     http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/Literaturo/Revuoj/nlr/nlr12/romanco.html
-- Jan Neruda, Kristnaska Romanco, Kristnaska poemo
    http://www.uni-leipzig.de/esperanto/texte/bibl/fabeloj_andersen/alumetoj.html
-- Hans Christian Andersen, Knabineto kun alumetoj
     http://hjem.get2net.dk/chenero/hca/hcaev040_eo.html -- Jen ilustrita
versio
     http://esperanto.nu/cgi-esperanto/elibro2.pl?eL=071-6 -- Charles
Dickens, Kristnaska kanto (en PDF-formato)
     http://www.geocities.com/cigneto/thcind/kristnasko.html -- Liland
Brajant Ros' provizas 116 kristnaskajn kanzonojn en sia reta himnaro

(Æi tiu subskribo ree mallongiøos post 1a de januaro)

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April 2004, Week 5
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February 2004, Week 1
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January 2004, Week 3
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January 2004, Week 1
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December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
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September 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 1
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October 2001, Week 3
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October 2001, Week 1
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September 2001, Week 1
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July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 3
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May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
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April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
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January 2001, Week 3
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January 2001, Week 1
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