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CONLANG  January 2002, Week 4

CONLANG January 2002, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Case?

From:

Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 26 Jan 2002 17:52:17 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (79 lines)

Muke Tever wrote:
>Anyway:
>
>             Status
>    they     Nominative 3rd person pronoun
>    them     Accusative 3rd person pronoun
>    theirs   Possessive 3rd person pronoun
>    their    Possessive 3rd person adjective
>
>"Possessive" is kind of peculiar to English--it's not exactly the same as
>"Genitive" in the familiar languages.  Example, example, hmm... Apparently
in
>Latin you can say {acervus frumenti} [pile.NOM grain.GEN] "a pile of
grain",
>while saying "grain's pile" in English wouldn't make the same kind of
sense.
>The English 'case' generally only applies to possession, metaphorical or
>literal.

Not to mention "amor dei" "God's love", which is certainly two-ways
ambiguous in Engl. and probably in Latin too.  (subjective vs. objective
genitive)

>As for needing it... If your language can use adjectives substantively, you
>should be able to use the 3rd person adjective in the same place.
>
>For example, (this is 'pseudocodelang'):
>
>    dˇ     a  eius su     gat
>    give.I to 3P   3P-ADJ cat
>    "I give them their cat"
>
>    dˇ     a  eius el  su
>    give.I to 3P   ART 3P-ADJ
>    "I give them theirs"
Some sort of proto-conRomance? ;-)  Reminiscent of Spanish:  les di el suyo,
not (IIRC) *les di suyo.  However, es mio/tuyo/suyo etc. 'it's mine...' is
OK (?).  How about "este libro es el mio" 'this book [there are several ] is
mine' (?)-- not sure about that.

I recently had to figure this out for Kash.  There are no possessive
pronouns; we use the genitive case of the personal pronouns (generally not
used otherwise, since simple possession is marked with suffixes):

- yale mami/hati/ini/mili/hili/nili 'it's
mine/yours/his,hers/our/yours-pl/theirs'

However, in cases like your exs. above, we need a demonstrative:
ne      ma.vele lapis.ti
3s.dat  I-give pencil-your
'I gave him your pencil'   (lapis is a temporary loanword)

ne     mavele      yu              hati
3s.dat I-give that(neut,acc) of-you
'I gave him yours' (lit., that [thing] of you)

Similarly:
ya.timbat   aman.ti,        i      ya.n     mami eme
he-knows father(acc)-your, and  that(masc,acc) of-me also
'He knows your father, and [he knows] mine too.'

(I think this is possible, though it seems awkward:)
yatimbat    amanti,           i          ya                  mami   eme
he-knows yr,father(acc)  and  that(masc.nom.) of-me too.
'he knows your father, and mine [knows your father] does too.'

contrast (not at all awkward):
ama.ti               (yale) ka˝ulin,    i     ya                    mami eme
father(nom)-your (is) carpenter, and that(nom, masc) of-me also
'your father is a carpenter, and so is mine'

It works the same way with adjectives:
ma.lisam      yu            šisu
I-like     that(neut,acc) red
'I like the red one'

QUESTION:  Are these examples of _anaphora_, or do I have my technical terms
mixed up?

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