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CONLANG  March 2002, Week 3

CONLANG March 2002, Week 3

Subject:

comments in the light of Jesse's Beacon (was: : Lighting Some Flames: Towards conlang artistry)

From:

And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:46:12 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (85 lines)

Jesse Bangs:

> Responses, comments, counter-flames?

I must confess that my method of keeping up with Conlang nowadays is
to delete everybody except for longtime chums and people who I know
to only ever post worthwhile messages of. That means there's loads
of interesting stuff I never get to see, and I had to go and hunt
this message out of the archives.

It beats me why your message attracted flames. You articulate your
tastes with a very engaging passion, and the manifestoeyness of it
takes me back to the salad days of my teenage years when I was
young and green in judgement and preparing to take the world of
Art by storm, manning the barricades of polemic along with the
rest of our coterie; my favourite book at 15 was the first
Vorticist manifesto of 1914 (Blast 1). (Ee, I don't know what
t'world's coming to: young people these days, they just watch
daytime telly and then of a night want nothing better than to get
pissed, go clubbing, drop some Es. Not one manifesto among t'lot
of 'em.)

Here are my comments on your clarion call:

> Of these problems, the one that I wish to address here is the
> lack of a critical perspective within the conlang community.

I find (almost) all art criticism either insipid, moronic or
baffling. It is pretty much in the nature of art that it resists
rational scrutiny. Indeed, that is why although I enjoy artlangs,
my intellect is engaged instead with engelangs precisely because
they are amenable to rational scrutiny.

> The thing to do, then, seems to be to start such a school, and
> simply get down to the business of evaluating conlangs as works
> of art.  I therefore announce the founding of the Naturalist
> school of conlanging, which regards the following three things
> as values:
>  *  Naturalness, as the name implies.  We prefer languages that
> resemble natural languages, that could fool a linguist examining
> them into thinking that they actually existed somewhere on the
> globe.  Auxlangs and philosophical langs are anathema because
> their very nature goes against this value.
>  *  Complexity and completeness.  No natural language is completely
> regular or completely simple, so neither will our languages.
> Furthermore, we seek to describe and develop our languages as completely
> as possible.  Those who make dozens of half-finished sketches are
> creating the equivalent of commercial jingles.  We seek to create
> symphonies.

Hurray for such glorious hubris! Unfortunately one grows out of it,
but fortunately new batches of Youth keep it alive!

At any rate, in artlangs I share your tastes in these two things.

>  *  Creativity, defined as difference from your native language.
> If your native language is Chinese, your target should be Ancient
> Greek.  If your native language is English, your target is Dyirbal
> (tonal, ergative Australian language).  Those who speak Italian and
> are only interested in Romance-style conlangs earn no respect in
> this area.  Those that seek to challenge themselves and their
> learners are applauded.

But here I disagree with you. There are innumerable artlangs slathered
with fatuous exotica, with gratuitous differentness, giving off the
sense that the author has read a couple of books on language typology
and plundered a few of the superficially peculiar features of the
linguistic monotremes and marsupials. This is intimately coupled with
a kneejerk rejection of our native languages, instead of a deepening
appreciation of their soul. Yes, Tolkien's languages are rather boringly
european, but at least they are a kind of deeply considered meditation on
europeanness. A better aesthetic criterion to my mind is that the
conlang be infused with and inhabited by its creator, as, for instance,
with Teonaht, a language full of creativity and originality, engaged in
a kind of subliminal dialogue with English and Welsh, yet unlike either,
and at the same time also full of -- in its marrow rather than as a
garnish of afterthought -- the quirks and eccentricities that we find in
natlangs. Note that Teonaht was pretty much fully developed before its
author had studied any modern linguistics.

At any rate, I am very glad that you braved the flames to articulate
so unequivocally your own aesthetic: I found it most interesting.

--And.

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