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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  April 2002, Week 2

CONLANG April 2002, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Zamenhof 16 rules in your conlang

From:

John Cowan <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 8 Apr 2002 06:27:56 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (175 lines)

Carlos Thompson scripsit:

> Trying to describe Tokcir (NGL), I come out with a paraphrase of
> Zamenhof 16 rules of Esperanto adapted to Tokcir.  The results:

Here are the 16 rules for Esperanto and Lojban side-by-side (as it were),
as developed by Athelstan back in 1990.  I apologize for the slight
flavor of auxlanginess in the Comment paragraphs: ignore them if you will.

E1)  There is no Indefinite Article, there is only a definite article
(la), alike for all sexes, cases, and numbers.

L1)  The articles la, le, lo, li, and lu are the name, non-veridical,
veridical, numeral, and utterance articles, respectively.  lai, lei, and
loi are the mass articles and la'i, le'i, and lo'i are the set articles
corresponding to the first three above.  lo'e is the typical/average
article, and le'e is the stereotypical article.  None vary by number,
case or sex.

Comment:  This is the one rule where Lojban is not as succinct as
Esperanto in covering the same ground.

E2)  Substantives end in o.  To form the plural j is added.  There are
only two cases: nominative and accusative; the latter is obtained from
the nominative by adding n.  Other cases are expressed by preposition
(genitive de, dative al, ablative per, etc.)

L2)  sumti (arguments) assume the case of the sumti place they occupy.
The place tags fa, fe, fi, fo, and fu may be used to explicitly state
the place.  Also, the case tags bai, bau, di'u, etc. may be used to
specify the case.

Comment:  Lojban words do not change endings, so the corresponding
rule only deals with determination of cases.  Note that this is a
conglomeration of four rules, each in its own sentence.

E3)  The Adjective ends in a.  Case and number as for substantives.
The Comparative is made by means of the word pli, the Superlative by plej;
with the Comparative the conjunction ol is used.

L3)  Any selbri may modify any other selbri by position.  Comparatives and
Superlatives are formed by simple modification.

Comment:  The Lojban rule describes a secondary function, as there are
no separate words that act only as adjectives in Lojban.  The Esperanto
rule consists of six rules this time; the second sentence is short but
refers to two separate rules inside Rule 2.

E4)  The cardinal Numerals (not declined) are: unu, du, tri, kvar, kvin,
ses, sep, ok, nau, dek, cent, mil.  Tens and hundreds are formed by simple
junction of the numerals.  To mark the ordinal numerals a is added;
for the multiple, obl; for the fractional, on; for the collective, op;
for the distributive, the preposition po.  Substantival and adverbial
numerals can also be used.

L4)  The digits are pa, re, ci, vo, mu, xa, ze, bi, so, and no (zero).
pi is the decimal point.  Numbers are formed by junction of the digits.
li ... boi surround simple numbers as sumti.  To mark the ordinal, the
post-position moi is used; similarly mei for the collective.  pi ... mei
surrounds the fractional.

Comment:  These two Rules correspond closely for the first seven parts,
but the last sentence of Zamenhof's rule invokes rules from Rule 2 and
Rule 3, adding ten rules in all for a total of seventeen rules directly
and indirectly contained in this paragraph.

E5)  Personal Pronouns: mi, vi, li, si, gi (thing or animal), si, ni,
vi, ili, oni; possessives are formed by adding a.  Declension as for
substantives.

L5)  Anaphora: ko'a, ko'e, etc; mi, do, ko, ti, ta, tu, ri, ra, ru,
zu'i, zo'e; possessives are formed by position or with prepositions pe,
po, po'e.

Comment:  These are of similar length except that Rule 2's substantive
declension rules are included. I count six rules, therefore, to
Lojban's three.

E6)  The Verb undergoes no change with regard to person or number.
Forms of the verb: time being (Present) takes the termination -as;
time been (Past) -is; time about-to-be (Future) -os; Conditional mood
-us; Imperative mood -u; Infinitive - i.  Participles (with adjectival
or adverbial sense):  active present -ant; active past -int; active
future -ont; passive present -at; passive past -it; passive future -ot.
The passive is rendered by a corresponding form of the verb esti and
a passive participle of the required verb; the preposition with the
passive is de.

L6)  The selbri undergoes no change.  The tense markers pu (past), ca
(present), ba (future), vi, va, vu (space), etc. may be used with any
selbri or within sumti.  nu, ka, ni, etc. are the abstraction operators.
For the imperative, use the anaphorum ko.

Comment:  Without reference to any other Rules, Zamenhof has packed Rule
6 with sixteen rules.  Lojban's nine include the abstraction operators,
which have no counterpart in Esperanto.  Also, I have counted the tense
markers as three separate rules, but they should probably count as one,
like any of the other lists.

E7)  Adverbs end in e; comparison as for adjectives.
  (not applicable to Lojban)

Comment:  This is covered under Rule 3 on modification.

E8)  All Prepositions govern the nominative.
  (not applicable to Lojban)

Comment:  Lojban has no cases in the sense used here, so it needs no
rule corresponding to this one.

E9)  Every word is Pronounced as it is Spelt.

L9)  Every word is Pronounced as it is Spelt.

E10)  The Accent is always on the second-last syllable.

L10)  The Accent is always on the second-last syllable (names may be
marked for irregular stress).

E11)  Compound Words are formed by simple junction of the words (the chief
word stands at the end).  Grammatical terminations are also regarded as
independent words.

L11)  lujvo are formed by simple junction of the gismu or rafsi,
substituting or inserting y where appropriate.

Comment:  As Zamenhof left off variant compounding rules, I felt equally
free in leaving out the more extensive lujvo-making considerations.

E12)  When another negative word is present the word ne is left out.

L12)  na acts to negate a bridi, and is never an intensifier.

Comment:  I have recently examined a treatise on the scope of negation
in the natural languages.  It is medium-sized, and an inch and a half
thick; both of these two Rule statements obviously miss a lot of ground.

E13)  In order to show direction towards, words take the termination of
the accusative.
  (not applicable to Lojban)

Comment:  see comment on 8, above.

E14)  Each Preposition has a definite and constant meaning;  but if
the direct sense does not indicate which it should be, we use the
preposition je, which has no meaning of its own.  Instead of je we may
use the accusative without a preposition.
  (not applicable to Lojban)

E15)  The so-called Foreign Words, that is, those which the majority of
languages have taken from one source, undergo no change in Esperanto,
beyond conforming to its orthography; but with various words from one
root, it is better to use unchanged only the fundamental word and to
form the rest from this latter in accordance with the rules of the
Esperanto language.

L15)  Nonce le'avla are marked with le'a and a marker rafsi as appropriate,
and should conform to Lojban orthography.

Comment:  Zamenhof's Rule here does not seem to admit of any major group
of languages that are not closely interrelated.  That is, he assumes
that if a word varies, it varies from one fundamental root word.  I have
included a description of borrowed terms as the closest approximation
to this rule.

E16)  The Final Vowel of the substantive and of the article may sometimes
be dropped and be replaced by an apostrophe.
  (not applicable to Lojban)


--
John Cowan <[log in to unmask]>     http://www.reutershealth.com
I amar prestar aen, han mathon ne nen,    http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
han mathon ne chae, a han noston ne 'wilith.  --Galadriel, _LOTR:FOTR_

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June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
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August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
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July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
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June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
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May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
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January 2005, Week 3
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January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
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October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
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September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
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August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
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July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
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May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
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March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
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February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
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January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
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December 2003, Week 3
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December 2003, Week 1
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November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
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October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
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September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
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July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
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May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
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January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
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September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
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August 2001, Week 3
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August 2001, Week 1
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July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 1
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May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
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February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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January 2001, Week 3
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December 2000, Week 5
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June 2000, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
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October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
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June 1999, Week 5
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April 1999, Week 1
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December 1998, Week 5
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September 1998, Week 5
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September 1998, Week 3

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