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CONLANG Home

CONLANG  April 2002, Week 2

CONLANG April 2002, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Offlang suggestion & counterproposal

From:

Maarten van Beek <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 8 Apr 2002 15:47:23 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (153 lines)

> Van: Christophe Grandsire
>
> En réponse à Maarten van Beek <[log in to unmask]>:
>
> > A good editorial staff should allow multiple input formats. Writers
> > should worry about writing content, editors should worry about formats.
> >
>
> Yep, but that's only when you want to make a magazine. I'm talking about a
> *journal*. That's something quite different.

Well, not "quite" different, but "somewhat" different. That would be a
better choice of words. Incidently, did you know that most journals are
actually magazines?

> > That would seriously diminish the flow of interesting articles send to
> > the magazine.
>
> Nope, since I *don't* want a magazine, but a *journal*, available both in
paper
> and electronic format. And it's something I can organise myself, but then
I
> have to ask people to write in a certain format, because I don't have time
to
> make the changes myself (though I could accept RTF and HTML, but since
those
> give much less possibilities than LaTeX, I don't see the point of it).

Because writers would not have to bother with laarning LateX. They can write
in Word or whatever editor they already know, and save as HTML or RTF. The
writer should not be bothered with selecting a certain format, since that is
the editor's job. If I would have to learn LateX, however easy it may be, I
simply wouldn't bother sending in stuff. Or can you provide me with a plugin
where I can save a LateX file from Word? If that's the case, send it to me,
and I will shut up.

> > > Despite its frightening looks, LaTeX is nearly as easy as HTML
> >
> > You consider HTML easy? Trust me, for many people HTML is a problem not
> > to be overcome in a lifetime.
> >
>
> That's nonsense! If you can write plain text you can write HTML (and you
can
> write plain text since you can write mails). You just have to learn two
> handfuls of tags to add to your text! Are you gonna tell me that
> it's something some people can't do? It's even easier than using Word!

No, it is not. Most of my students have learnt the computer by graphic
interface. They are completely unfamiliar with the idea of text-based
editing. They find tags etc. used for formatting counter-intuitive, not
because they are, but because they are not used to it.
I have taught informal website-making classes, and when I did an
introduction of basic HTML layout, my students started groaning and
complaining... until out comes Dreamweaver, Frontpage or some other WYSIWYG
editor, and happy smiles appeared on their faces again: this was something
they could work with, which was familar to them.

I am kind of an in-between person: I prefer text-based editing along with
WYSIWYG screens so I can directly see my result. I understand both sides

> > The magazine now starts to sound like a simply laid out composition of
> > rather long articles.
>
> That's a *journal*, not a magazine! Let's make things straight too: I
don't
> care about a magazine. We just don't have the material to make such a
thing
> here. What would you put in it anyway?

Well, if the material is already there, what's the point of putting it in a
journal? The idea of a magazine or journal, imo, is to have people write new
stuff, not just a re

And I would know some stuff to put into a conlang mag:
-article discussing the special features of a certain conlang
-interview with a conlang VIP (someone who has created many conlangs, or has
been for a long time, or who is seen as someone with very great skill) about
his interests in conlanging
-a poll
-phoneme of the month (a treatise about the use and abuse of a selected
phoneme or set of phonemes in varisou conlangs and maybe natlangs)
-How do you handle..(various conlang authors give ideas on how they handle a
certain grammtical featue in their conlang or conlangs. E.g. "How do you
handle the passive voice?" or "How do you handle numeric systems?"
-reader's tips
-conlang complete (an overview of an entire conlang, including phonology,
grammar, idiom etc.)
-in the news: about conlangs in the outside world (Tolkien movie, a new Star
Trek movie featuring the ancient klingon script)
-translation exercise (a piece of text written in a conlang with a link to
the website where the language is explained; in the subsequent issue: the
translation... maybe even make it a contest: "best" translation wins a prize
(but would require a jury))
- Your word for... (like the weekly word list thingy that has just been
started on the list. Each issue gives you the word to translate in yuor
conlang for the next issue, with a short explanation).
- A visit to... (a more in-depth story about the conculture for a certain
conlang, but with an accent on the conlang aspect: explain idiom specific to
the language etc.).
- Something about script/alphabets

> > I do not see the benefit of that. I always skip the long posts on the
list.
>
> Well, then what's your point? By doing that you merely skip the
> posts the list has been created for.

That might be, but I joint a long time after creation, when the list had,
imho, become something different. I believe, as I wrote in an e-mail a short
while back, that the posts on this list should be more concise and more to
the point. How can I ever critique and entire language just like that?

> > What you propose is not "editing" it is merely
> > "collecting" articles. A good magazine requires as much time beign put
> > together as it takes writing the actual content.
>
> Well, I think I have quite some experience on that to not need your
opinion!

Lol, in my experience, the more experience people have, the more different
opinions they generally need :-)

> I've been chief redactor of a newspaper myself. I know how it works, and I
know
> that it's not what we need. If you're not interested in a conlinguistic
> journal, then it's OK by me. Just don't give comments that miss the point
entirely.

Well, they miss the point in as much that the kind of thing you have in mind
was quite different from the thing I had in mind. Therefore, my critique
missed the point indeed.

But if I recall correctly, there was a post no too long ago, by someone who
left this list because of the lack of critique he got when he posted his
conlang. I wrote an analysis about it, and got many positive replies from
people on the list. The core of my analysis was, that most people on the
list do not have the time, nor the skills, nor the desire to study complete
language profiles for the purpose of critiquing (there are exceptions). So
my "magazine" was aimed for a somewhat broader audience, with less time to
read through everything in detail, or with a specific interest in only
certain aspects of conlanging (word creation, phonologies, grammars etc.),
while your "journal", imo, is much more in-depth and aimed more at a small
group of die-hard conlangers who rigorously read everything on any conlang
that comes along.

I don't think one or the other is better, merely that they both have a
different scope and serve a different audience. And don't tell me that your
journal fits the audience on the list better without any form of proof,
because then, I'll just shout the very same thing back at you :-)

Maarten

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