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CONLANG  May 2002, Week 1

CONLANG May 2002, Week 1

Subject:

Re: a Tocharian theory (was Re: Kentum/satem)

From:

Jan van Steenbergen <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 3 May 2002 09:22:16 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (66 lines)

 --- J Y S Czhang wrote:

> >All I know is that they *were* Buddhists, but when? Don't ask me!
> >All Tocharian materials we have (largely Buddhist in content) go back to
> >the years 450-750.
>
> Buddhism was introduced to China around the beginnings of the C.E. but
> was not widespred till around the T'ang dynasty (618-907 C.E.)

So the conclusion might be justified that *all* Tocharians were Buddhists
long before *all* Chinese were. ;)

> >> Also, the Chinese word for "dog" is originally a Tocharian word, yes?
> >>The Tocharians introduced dogs or dog-breeding to China, yes?
> >
> >The word for "dog" in Tocharian (both A and B) is: ku.
>
>     I forget the Mandarin, but the Cantonese (Yue) is _gau_.

Which seems to confirm your theory.

> >All we know for sure is, that there WERE Tocharians
> >(probably under a different name, by the way) until 750, while afterwards
> >they disappeared into Finnair.
>
>     0_o? "Finnair"? They flew to Finland? ::just joking with ya::

Sure. Where do you think the Finnish got their huge number of __'s from?

>     I thoroughly agree with you on all counts, but my pessimistic soul says
> option #1 more than Option #2 based purely on the gut-feeling that the
> Tocharians must have been wiped out over a period of a few centuries (My
> rough theory: At first, the Tocharians resisted being surrounded and
> overwhelmed by these hostile, nomadic Turkic peoples. But the sheer numbers
> of the Turkic peoples gradually moving east changed Central Asia forever.
> Later, the Turkic tribespeople - settling down to semi-nomadic, agarian
> "civilization" - intermarried with what remaining Tocharian survivors were
> left, by which time there was no longer a living Tocharian culture or
> language to speak of).

That's what I believe, too.

> >There is a theory that the recently discovered Takla Makan mummies were
> >Tocharians. An interesting idea, because the mummies were tall, reddish-
> >blonde and look much more European than Asiatic.

> I have to say that - at this point in time - I subscribe to this theory.
> And IIRC there are still legends and stories about red-haired "Chinese" who
> were Buddhists who lived in the Western Lands.
> Amongst some western Chinese minority peoples, they sometimes still have
> reddish haired, freckled skinned children.

That's fascinating. So *they* are probably descendants of the Tocharians.
Do they include Uygurs as well?

Jan

=====
"You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." --- J. Michael Straczynski

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