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AUXLANG  June 2002, Week 2

AUXLANG June 2002, Week 2

Subject:

Re: IPA values of Eo sounds

From:

Kjell Rehnstrom <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:47:57 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (91 lines)

Stephen DeGrace wrote:

> (...)

> Ah, too bad, but I could at least try :P. By the way,
> I am running a couple Yahoo polls on the lsg-ano and
> esperanto Yahoo lists. Very small and unscientific,
> but the upshot is that with these double vowels, there
> seems to be no consistent strategy emerging for how
> people deal with them, except that no one so far has
> said they just treat them as single vowels (I think
> Esperantists take seriously the link between
> orthography and pronounciation), there are a few
> people who say they treat them as long vowels, but the
> most popular response is the say they use a pause
> (like /ge esperant'istoj/) or a glottal stop
> /ge?esperant'istoj/. Same pattern in scii. I think the
> people who say they use a pause may actually use a
> glottal stop and not know that they're doing it.
> Absolutely no one says they use a glide
> /gejesperant'istoj/, although some may do and not
> recognise it, possibly.

Anecdotal evidence again 8-) A Swedish Esperanto speaker would say
[g(:)speran'tistoj] (I use  to denote a closed e, as I understand in
English "bed",  a more open e, but not so open as a in "back".

As far as I remember German and Danish speakers do the same.

I open my e in esperanto "lerni" (to learn), because of my Swedish. I was
not conscious about that until a Finnish Esperanto-speaking friend made
me realize it. For her there was no problem pronouncing "lerni" with the
same sound as in english "bed". But I said [lrni], or perhaps then
['lrni] and still do.

I have noted as typical of Polish speakers that they pronounce
"geesperantistoj" with a _pause_ after ge, thus [ge-esperan'tistoj]. Some
speakers on the Polish Radio programs in Esperanto even make their _oj_s
into [@j] (schwa j, j here being a consonantic i and not the sound we
hear in English _just_.

When I as a young guy started learning Esperanto there were stil elderly
persons in the Esperanto movement who had not had any foreign languages
in school, and they would substitute the Esperanto ch with Swedish "tj"
(pronounced as a silent j, the sign is , but it is more towards the
front than a German ch in _ich_.

For a Swedish speaker of Esperanto -o will easily become u so that a noun
can sound as an imperative!

Elderly people couldn't pronounce jh as well but would say [S].

Young Esperanto speakers today can pronounce all the sounds in Esperanto
as they have English at school and are acquainted with the IPA caracters.

Slavic speakers of Esperanto come - to our ears - very close to the ideal
Esperanto pronunciation, as we understand it. Disturbing that pictiure a
little bit is the Polish habit to soften the n before i: ['oi] for
normal ['oni], or some Russian Esperanto speakers who have a tendency to
treat o as Russian o > a.

French Speakers have a tendency to put stress on the last syllable,
[mona'to] instead of [mo'na(:)to]. Scandinavians and Germans - at least -
will pronounce the a long in monato.

> Leads me to think that /?/ may actually be a valid
> unwritten phoneme of the Esperanto language :). Just
> some casual speculation.

You could certainly include it in a course of higher phonetics of
Esperanto.

> By the way, anecdotal comment, plus another informal,
> highly unscientific poll on lsg-ano shows that in that
> online gay and lesbian Esperantist community, the
> demographics are overwhelmingly male. Just a tidbit
> for interest.

This has probably to do with the male dominance on the Net, even though
this is changing slowly.

> Interestingly, it is apparently a rather
> linguistically progressive Esperantist community, as
> well as tolerating lively debate over lingusitic
> issues.

It is a fact, observed by linguists, that language discussion will be
much livelier when the language used is nobody's native language.

Kjell R

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