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AUXLANG  July 2002, Week 1

AUXLANG July 2002, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Spanish Interlinguistics Association

From:

fasilinguo <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 2 Jul 2002 14:31:43 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (189 lines)

    Saludos, Rodrigo.
    Cuando dices que no has escrito el mensaje en una lengua auxiliar para
que no parezca que estás a favor de alguna de ellas, pareces olvidar que la
gente piensa. Yo mismo he escrito mensajes en esperanto y en inglés a esa
lista, sin que nadie haya pensado ni por un momento que soy un entusiasta de
esos idiomas para la comunicación internacional. Además, tú mismo confiesas
que ni te habías planteado escribir en castellano; o sea, que consideras que
el inglés es la lengua seria en foros internacionales. No me parece extraña
tu actitud; por el contrario, es la típica de quien subordina su lengua
nativa a otra que le parece más importante.
    Nunca la he ocultado mi militancia antianglosajona, sino que la he
exhibido y exhibo. Hoy, no veo otra manera de preservar y desarrollar la
variedad de las lenguas y culturas del mundo que oponerse de modo eficaz y
sistemático a la imposición del inglés y de la cultura anglosajona.
    Ahora vas a entrar en la universidad. Ahí verás marrullería y cinismo
para parar un rato; pues la corrupción de las corrupciones es la corrupción
intelectual, y nada más podrido en España que los intelectuales y
académicos. Ya verás, ya.
    Lo que dices del inglés en una asociación española de lingüística, por
ejemplo, indica que aún crees en el carácter bueno y racional del hombre, al
menos en la comunidad científica. En realidad, los investigadores de todos
los ramos ven rechazadas sistemáticamente sus contribuciones, algunas
valiosísimas, por el simple hecho de que no saben inglés. Los anglos son muy
hábiles en infiltrarse, sí, hasta forzar a gobiernos y universidades a
utilizar el inglés, primero de modo "voluntario" y luego a la fuerza. Por
ejemplo, desde hace años en la mayoría del territorio español la única
lengua extranjera que el alumno puede aprender es el inglés, y como es
obligatorio aprender una lengua extranjera, se lo obliga a aprender inglés.
Bajo la excusa de que "no hay presupuesto para elegir otra lengua" (ni
siquiera el francés, la lengua extranjera de aprendizaje tradicional en
España), se obliga a todo alumno al tal inglés, sin cuyo dominio (más
teórico que real, evidentemente) no puede superar los ciclos de enseñanza
obligatoria. Ésa es la "libertad" de usar el inglés hoy en día.
    Como no he nacido ayer, sé muy bien el sentido de poner cierta cláusula
en una futura asociación española de interlingüística. Una cláusula que
indicará que se puede usar en la asociación cualquier idioma
(preferentemente una lengua auxiliar o alguna de las lenguas habladas en
España) salvo el inglés, y que obligará a acompañar cualquier comunicación
en inglés con una traducción a otra lengua. Esa cláusula garantiza un
derecho elemental de los no angloparlantes y de la misma interlingüística
(como ciencia y técnica de las lenguas auxiliares construidas): el derecho a
no saber ni aprender inglés.
    En resumen: no estamos ante la libertad de usar o no el inglés, sino
ante su continua imposición por parte de los grupos de presión anglosajones.
Así que en general y científicamente en concreto urge tomar contramedidas
para revertir esta imposición. Cuando deje de ser obligatorio saber inglés
en la aviación civil internacional, en el sistema educativo español,
etcétera, dejaría de ser necesario excluir el inglés como lengua de trabajo
en una asociación científica española. Pero, hoy por hoy, hay que
defenderse, y no quiero que aplasten mi cultura.
    He hablado también de razones de eficacia. En la práctica, si se admiten
comunicaciones en inglés, de inmediato los anglos promoverán a sus
candidatos, impidiendo por ejemplo que los interlingüistas sin dominio del
inglés entren en la asociación. E impondrán que las comunicaciones
internacionales de la asociación sean exclusivamente en inglés salvo para
los países de lengua castellana. Bueno, y hace poco me llegó un currículo de
traductores de español, en España, ¡y en inglés! Claro, les dije que había
que reenviarlo en castellano y, bastante ofendidos, me dijeron que había
otras formas de pedirlo. Nunca dijeron cuáles eran esas otras formas (te
aseguro que no me acordé de sus mamás) y nunca mandaron el texto en
castellano. Pero saben que, al no mandarlo, pierden una fuente de ingresos,
o sea que a su presión se opone una contrapresión. Quienes no queremos
hablar ni entender el inglés tenemos una fuerza.
    Un buen ejemplo de todo esto se ha dado en una lista de la que habrás
oído hablar, la lista Auxlang-Dialog. Esta lista se concibió como lista para
el encuentro, el apoyo mutuo y el posible ecumenismo entre las lenguas
auxiliares. Formo parte de ella. Y, naturalmente, el único idioma de
recepción en la lista es el inglés, casi todos escriben en inglés en la
lista, etcétera. Con lo cual los esperantistas, los hispanistas, etcétera,
naturalmente se desentienden del asunto.
    Aquí lo que funciona es el sentido común. El tino es inglés también,
claro, pero un inglés muy fácil y simplificado. El inglés en su forma
habitual no simplificada es tan difícil que su uso obligatorio introduce
implacablemente una división entre quienes lo hablan fácilmente (en general,
hablantes nativos) y el resto.
    Así pues, también yo estoy a favor de entrar en una asociación española
de interlingüistas. Pero la actitud ante el inglés es tan fundamental que no
pienso dejar colar en la asociación la utilización del inglés como lengua
interna ni como lengua principal de relación internacional.
    Mi propuesta es una asociación de interlingüistas, española,
hispanoamericana o de ámbito diferente, pero que utilice como lenguas de
trabajo preferentemente lenguas construidas auxiliares. No me refiero a las
asociaciones esperantistas, pues el esperantismo es secta seudorreligiosa y
no un movimiento científico. Me refiero a una asociación neutral que de
verdad ponga a funcionar a las lenguas auxiliares, incluido el esperanto
como una más de ellas y sin privilegios. Pues sería una mayúscula
contradicción que una asociación destinada a estudiar y promover lenguas
auxiliares construidas sólo las utilice ocasionalmente en la comunicación
internacional. Sabemos que, en la práctica, con el esperanto, el ido, el
novial, la interlingua, el europanto y muchas otras auxilenguas que son en
realidad variantes de las cuatro primeras, hay base suficiente para la
comunicación.
    La primera concreción de esta propuesta sería crear una nueva lista
electrónica similar a la lista Auxlang-Dialog, pero que excluya al inglés
como lengua de trabajo. Y no veo ningún problema con ello. Los hablantes
nativos de inglés ya espabilarán y usarán otra lengua cualquiera si quieren
participar. Lo que ocurre es que esta sencilla regla impide que tengan la
sartén por el mango y que copen la lista. Repito que no pienso en una lista
como Ideolengua, una lista que funcione principalmente en castellano, sino
en una lista que funcione en varios idiomas evitando el inglés.
    De Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodrigo Portela Sánchez" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 3:50 AM
Subject: Re: Spanish Interlinguistics Association


On Tuesday, July 2, 2002, 12:04:49 AM, fasilinguo ([log in to unmask])
wrote:

>     Ya, y será obligatorio saber inglés en esta asociación, razón por la
> cual ni te molestas en anunciarla en castellano en la lista Ideolengua, ¿o
> sí, Rodrigo?
>     A mí el uso interno del inglés para comunicaciones en España me
resulta
> simplemente espeluznante. De neutral no tiene nada; es una supeditación
> ultrajante de la cultura hispánica a la anglosajona.
>     Desde luego, si yo alguna vez formo parte de una asociación así (que,
> bien concebida, me interesa mucho), me voy a negar por razones de
principio
> y por razones de eficacia a expresarme en inglés o aceptar comunicaciones
en
> inglés de sus socios.
>     De Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo.

A ver, Alexandre, tranquilo. Vamos por partes :-)

Sí voy a escribir un mensaje a IdeoLengua hablando de esto. Que no lo
haya hecho en el mismo momento de escribir a AUXLANG, no quiere decir
que no lo vaya a hacer. Y será un mensaje en español, como todos los
que he escrito a IdeoLengua (digo los que he escrito, no cuentan los
reenvíos ;-) ). De hecho, es una de las listas en las que estaba pensando
cuando
escribí: "if I start writing about it to
several mailing lists I belong to, including this list"

En cuanto a lo del inglés... En esta lista estoy acostumbrado a leer
mensajes en
inglés y en algunas lenguas auxiliares. Me planteé escribir el mensaje
en inglés o en una lengua auxiliar, pero, por el contenido del
mensaje, para que no parezca que estoy a favor de una determinada LIA
al usarla para escribir ese mensaje, al final opté por escribir en
inglés. No es que tenga nada en contra del español/castellano, que es
mi lengua materna, sino que, aunque te parezca extraño, ni siquiera me
había planteado escribir ese mensaje a AUXLANG en español. Es así de
simple.

Por otra parte yo no soy quién (y creo que nadie lo es) para imponer
el uso del inglés en una asociación que ni siquiera existe todavía, y
que, si existiera, creo que debería disfrutar de una política
lingüística lo más abierta posible. Igual que no impondría el uso del
inglés, aunque dependiera de mí, tampoco lo prohibiría ni
criticaría, porque una política lingüística abierta me parece la única
solución defendible y lógica en el contexto de una asociación
interlingüística. Tienes un buen ejemplo de esa libertad en esta
lista.

Naturalmente, eres libre de negarte a aceptar comunicaciones en inglés
de quien quieras, pero supongo que eres consciente de que con esa
actitud (te) estás cerrando bastantes puertas. Hoy en día es un hecho
evidente que la lengua internacional es el inglés, como en otras
épocas lo fueron otras lenguas. Con esto no quiero decir que se deba
usar el inglés en una asociación interlingüística española, sino que
es evidente que, en un momento u otro, será útil e incluso necesario
usar el inglés, dependiendo de quién sea el destinatario de esas
comunicaciones. Y no creo que eso suponga una "una supeditación
ultrajante de la cultura hispánica a la anglosajona", como dices en tu
mensaje. Una cosa es que la lengua sea un elemento fundamental de la
cultura, y otra bien distinta que exista la posibilidad de usar el
inglés, como otras lenguas, en una asociación interlingüística
española. Parece lógico en un primer momento que en una asociación
española se use el español, pero, dado que se trataría de una
asociación de interlingüística y que a sus miembros se les supone
un conocimiento, aunque pueda ser pasivo en muchos casos, de varias
lenguas, no me parece para nada fuera de lugar esa libertad
lingüística que permita a esa asociación, por ejemplo, establecer y mantener
contactos
internacionales en inglés si es la única opción posible o si,
simplemente, se cree oportuno, o producir documentación informativa
sobre las lenguas auxiliares en las otras lenguas del Estado o en
otras lenguas. Creo que sería positivo, nunca negativo.

Es mi opinión.

Rodrigo

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April 2008, Week 5
April 2008, Week 4
April 2008, Week 3
April 2008, Week 2
April 2008, Week 1
March 2008, Week 5
March 2008, Week 4
March 2008, Week 3
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February 2008, Week 5
February 2008, Week 4
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February 2008, Week 1
January 2008, Week 5
January 2008, Week 4
January 2008, Week 3
January 2008, Week 2
January 2008, Week 1
December 2007, Week 5
December 2007, Week 4
December 2007, Week 3
December 2007, Week 2
December 2007, Week 1
November 2007, Week 5
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November 2007, Week 3
November 2007, Week 2
November 2007, Week 1
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October 2007, Week 1
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September 2007, Week 2
September 2007, Week 1
August 2007, Week 5
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July 2007, Week 1
June 2007, Week 5
June 2007, Week 4
June 2007, Week 3
June 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 1
May 2007, Week 5
May 2007, Week 4
May 2007, Week 3
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May 2007, Week 1
April 2007, Week 5
April 2007, Week 4
April 2007, Week 3
April 2007, Week 2
April 2007, Week 1
March 2007, Week 5
March 2007, Week 4
March 2007, Week 3
March 2007, Week 2
March 2007, Week 1
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February 2007, Week 1
January 2007, Week 5
January 2007, Week 4
January 2007, Week 3
January 2007, Week 2
January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
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September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
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July 2006, Week 5
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June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
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November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
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July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
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May 2005, Week 5
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February 2005, Week 1
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January 2005, Week 3
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January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
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September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
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July 2004, Week 3
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June 2004, Week 5
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April 2004, Week 5
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April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 3
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June 2003, Week 1
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April 2003, Week 5
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March 2003, Week 5
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March 2003, Week 3
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March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
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February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
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May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 1
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February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
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January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
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November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
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October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
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July 2001, Week 5
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July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
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April 2001, Week 5
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April 2001, Week 3
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April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 1
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December 1999, Week 5
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September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
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February 1999, Week 5
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February 1999, Week 1
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December 1998, Week 5
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June 1998, Week 5
June 1998, Week 4
June 1998, Week 3
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June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
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May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
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March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 5
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February 1998, Week 3
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February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
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December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 5
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February 1997, Week 1

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