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CONLANG  July 2002, Week 2

CONLANG July 2002, Week 2

Subject:

Re: CHAT translating the Paternoster (was: Liturgical thou/thee etc.(was: Thorn vs Eth))

From:

Nik Taylor <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:43:34 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (57 lines)

Ray Brown wrote:
> Yes, but 'may' still seems to me to imply 'wish' which is rather more
> remote than the imperatives of the Greek.

"May" to me doesn't necessarily imply "wish", at least, not as I use the
word "wish".

Altho, "let" would be better, I think.  For me, at least, "let" can
serve as a kind of optative/imperative.  In prayer, I would say
something like "God, please let ..." followed by my request.  So, I
might have:
Let your name be made holy,
Your kingdom come,
And your will be done, on Earth as it is in heaven.

> >  (I find _lead us not_ a bit odd, at least if you're trying to modernize
> > it)
>
> Indeed so.

I don't find it too odd.  Like I said earlier, postposed "not" can still
be used in Contemporary English in a contrasting situation, like "Ask
not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your
country."  I know I've used that construction on a few cases, but I
can't think of any examples off-head.  Also, "Do not lead us into
temptation" sounds to me overly abrupt, almost rude, like a demand
rather than a request.

> Where does "for ever and ever" come from?   It ain't there in the Greek
> (nor the Latin).

Part of the doxology.  Tho, why it would be used and not the rest of it,
I'm not sure.

> True - but outside of rhetorical and similar styles it is not normal.  If
> we accept
> postponed "not" because it's still occasionally used in rhetoric, verse
> etc., then
> there is surely reason not to allow the simple:
> "Your name be hallowed;
>   your kingdom come;
>   you will be done....etc"

Maybe I have a weird idiolect, but postposed not is rare, but not
archaic for me (I've been known to use it on a few occasions), while the
third person imperatives are archaic, only used in fixed phrases like
"God bless" or "God forbid".  Actually, except for the Lord's Prayer, I
can't really think of any uses of 3rd person imperatives that don't use
"God".

--
"There's no such thing as 'cool'.  Everyone's just a big dork or nerd,
you just have to find people who are dorky the same way you are." -
overheard
ICQ: 18656696
AIM Screen-Name: NikTaylor42

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