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AUXLANG  July 2002, Week 5

AUXLANG July 2002, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Attestante vs. Teste vs. Testiculo

From:

Thomas Alexander <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:25:28 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (74 lines)

Chris,
        Your comments on Jay's an my disussion are interesting,
but I see a few mild contradictions in your words, so I assume
that I'm overlooking something.

> "attest-" has more "prime vista" value than "teste"
> for some languages.

It sure does for me.  If I didn't know that Jay was a JW, I wouldn't
have understood "Testes de Jehova."  Well, maybe I would have - but
I surely would have been thrown by the word in a different context -
such as "There was an accident, but there weren't any 'testes'."

In the middle of your note (or at least in the middle of the part
I saved on my disk to comment on) you wrote:

> It's nice to have the source languages to fall back
> on for idiom (and I prefer that to the Esperantic
> solution of referring to the user community), but
> I don't feel obliged to do that.

If you qualify this as a gross generalization, I can accept it, but
it really seems that this is an oversimplification.  If a large
number of major languages have an expression similar to "take a bus",
you'll see "preni buson" in Esperanto with the meaning "iri per buso"
as opposed to "preni buson kaj meti gxin en la posxon"(*), and
people will use this "sourse language agreement" as justification.

On the other hand, you yourself allude to the "linguistic habits
of the Scandinavian Interlingua community."  Additionally, Stan Mulaik
is quoted in Edo Bernasconi's article "Neo-Romanticism in Language
Planning" as saying essentially that the language community of
Interlingua has overridden the official rule that when there is
not sufficient agreement among the source languages, that Latin
should be used.  Thus, while the formula would suggest words like
etiam, nimis, domo, and emer, the linguist community seems to prefer
words like anque, troppo, casa, and comprar.

It's also troubling that you call it "the Esperantic solution"
since (to pick at random another language I know we're both familar
with) English uses the same solution.  This is what natural languages
do.

> As a user, I feel I have the right to use the [highly
> permissive logic of Interlingua] as a trump card.

That's what I was trying to say.

> You've put your finger on a problem, but as I think my
> comments suggest, it's just a tendency in the language,
> not a defining characteristic.

Thanks for your support -- and yes, of course I exaggerated the
case to make my point.  No, I do not think it's an insurmountable
problem.  I do however think it's enough of a problem to cast
doubt on what I've been calling the "interlinguan mantra."  A
constructed language (and IA is a contructed language, in spite of
the claims of certain schools of thought) is more or less natural
with different definitions of "natural."  There's nothing obvious
about it.

Amike,
Tomaso
(*) I personally avoid "preni buson" and say "iri per buso."  On
the other hand, the former editor of a major Esperanto magazine
told me last year that I "tro bone parolas Esperanton" because
I make a distinction between "jxaluza" and "envia" (the former
relates to the fear of losing something, the latter to the desire
to get something.)
P.S. Happy August to everyone.  Since I'll be going to Hungary
fairly soon, I think I'll swear off my Yahoo lists for the whole
month of August (that includes Auxlang) so that I can get caught
up on a few things.  See you all in a few weeks.

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