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AUXLANG Home

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AUXLANG  August 2002, Week 1

AUXLANG August 2002, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Some thoughts on neutrality and new IALs

From:

"Paul O. BARTLETT" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 5 Aug 2002 20:00:08 -0400

Content-Type:

TEXT/PLAIN

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

TEXT/PLAIN (116 lines)

(sniped here and there for brevity)

On Mon, 5 Aug 2002, James Chandler wrote:

> I have been looking at a couple of provocative articles at Rick Harrison's
> Invisible Lighthouse (www.invisiblelighthouse.com).  The first is the book
> on Sona by Kenneth Searight.  The twin assaults by Searight and C K Ogden on
> the eurocentricity of most IALs:
>
> http://www.invisiblelighthouse.com/langlab/sona1.html
>
> really got me wondering: how do orientals really view languages like Esp,
> Ido, Novial, Interlingua... ?

    This is a tough question to answer, at least online, because so few
people (often none) outside the WENSA language orbit populate these
fora.  About the closest we come to non-WENSA speakers (in Leo Moser's
original sense) are those from eastern European countries, and for the
most part, except for people like Allan Kiviaho (a Finn) on INTERLNG,
they are Indo-European speakers.  I really don't have much of an idea
how non-WENSAns regard the euroclones (in which, despite the opinion of
some, I include Esperanto).

> What could we do to make IALs more neutral, in the global sense which Ogden
> and Searight had in mind?  Are there any areas where we could move to
> greater neutrality and/or orientality, while perhaps leaving other areas as
> they are?

    With Acadon, Leo Moser had the idea of maximal recognizability of
vocabulary in a loose sense, although I don't recall that he ever
specified what he meant by a loose sense.  Also, there has been nothing
new on the Acadon WWW pages in a long time, so I consider the project
moribund, if not actually dead.

    As for "greater neutrality and/or orientality," I doubt that we
could really do much of this without going to an outright a priori
vocabulary which would be equally strange to everyone.  I just don't
think that there is enough common word material across the board to be
of much use outside the WENSA environment.  Even with respect to the
so-called "international vocabulary," much of the usage tends to be
limited to specialists rather than to the general population.  As much
as I admire Hogben's original Interglossa, I think he -- as well as
many of his followers -- was laboring under the misjudgment of how well
most people could use the "scientific vocabulary" of Greco-Roman roots.
WENSA speakers may *use* words containing such roots without being able
to decompose the words lexically.  So my own take on it is that the
only truly "fair" auxlang really intended for global use would have an
a priori vocabulary.  But I doubt that a lot of westerners would take
to it.  Just look at the fuss over Volapük and the desire back when to
have a more "international" vocabulary, as with Idiom Neutral.  All to
often "international" has meant "congenial to westerners like me."
Many conIAL advocates in the west have taken an amazingly narrow minded
view, as if the only people worht considering were westerners.

>            Would it be worthwhile creating any more languages in the same
> vein as existing IALs without exploring the possibility of a more globally
> neutral system?

    In my opinion, no, although I am willing to take a look at new
projects.

> I also went back to RKH's 'Farewell to auxiliary languages' essay:
>
> http://www.invisiblelighthouse.com/langlab/farewell.html

    Harrison's attitude seems to be ambivalent.  It was *after* his
"farewell" that he updated his "optimal IAL design" paper, so I don't
know whether he is really in or out of the conIAL movement.

> One of his four conclusions is:
>
> 'If the world unexpectedly develops a hunger for an auxlang, it already has
> a thousand options from which to choose. In marketing terms, the supply of
> constructed auxiliary languages far exceeds the demand.'
>
> I think there is something hard to deny in this assertion.  What strikes me
> in all this is that if we are going to overpopulate the land of IALs even
> further, then we should at least try and progress to some really
> distinctively new type of language, one that tries to address, for example,
> the global neutrality issue above.

    We certainly don't need any more euroclones or quasi-euroclones.

>                 What I yearn for now in any new IAL is a different kind of
> middle way - that between eurocentricity and global neutrality.

    But what might this be but a beast which is neither fish nor fowl?
Maybe we should go to something like Suma or Sona and forget about
either eurocentricity or orientality.  But how many hidebound
westerners (we can be very narrow at times) would be willing to learn
an a priori vocabulary?  Ironically, with respect to natlangs they
*will* make the effort to learn a non-IE language with an entirely
unfamiliar vocabulary and even grammar, but they seem to balk at the
same thing with respect to a conIAL.

>                                               We have also not had a truly
> isolating system based on a vocabulary of the modern european type common to
> five of our seven RefList languages.  The remaining two RefList systems are
> the only highly isolating ones.

    Glosa and LsF?  Glosa does have a predominantly WENSA vocabulary.

> So to bring these ramblings together: Rick Harrison's conclusion is hard to
> dispute, but I think that adding another language to the existing plethora
> might be justifiable if that language is of a genuinely new type so that it
> is different in kind from the existing ones.

    Yes, I think that a "genuinely new type" is the only justifiable
one (although some existing ones, such as Suma and Sona would qualify
here).  Otherwise we have more than enough to choose from.

--
Paul Bartlett
[log in to unmask]
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