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CONLANG  August 2002, Week 2

CONLANG August 2002, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Yûomaewec: English Spelling

From:

Adrian Morgan <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 12 Aug 2002 19:47:17 +1000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (130 lines)

Christophe Grandsire wrote, en réponse ŕ myself:

> > It's been through several editions now, and recently I have simplified
> > the stress marking. The reason for complexifying the stress marking in
> > the first place was aesthetic - the new simplified version generates a
> > few duds like _eovolvvd_ for "evolved" (yuck!).
>
> What? It's lovely! :))

You would have preferred the old stress-marking system, I think.
Slightly more Maggellish.

If a stressed nucleus was followed by a consonant cluster or consonant
digraph, then under the old system you put a 'h' after the cluster.
This meant that stress was frequently marked inside the syllable
/after/ the one that was stressed! Also, if a stressed nucleus was
followed by a consonant and then the end of the word, you appended a
'h' to the word instead of doubling the consonant.

(e.g. the old "evolved" was "eovolvdh")

I changed it mostly to make it easier for feeble English brains to add
affixes without shuffling 'h's around, but I had reservations about
doing so mostly because I don't like the look of double 'v' either at
the end of a word or before another consonant. I also rather liked the
vaguely Gaelic feel created by all those extra 'h's.

> > semi-phonetic, but among the aesthetic preferences that governed its
> > design was a belief that a few exceptions and ambiguities add
> > character to a language. The best way to think about it is as the
[...]
> Wow! An English spelling that is pretending to achieve even more
> Maggelity than the normal English spelling ;))))) . And it even has
> real features of Maggel!!!

Erm, no :-) Note the words _"a few"_ in the above paragraph :-)

> > - Digraphs ending with 'o' represent long vowels
>
> When I said that it does have real features of Maggel ;))) . In Maggel
> an o after a vowel often marks it long.

Generally speaking I don't like the look of languages that have lots
of double vowels everywhere like "aa", "ee", etc (e.g. Dutch). "O" was
the best choice for a lengthening vowel because it doesn't appear at
the end of many diphthongs, and besides, there are English precedents
e.g. "people".

> >   /@/   {i}   (as in "rabbit")
>
> Funny, an English spelling that doesn't write /@/ as |a| :))) . I must
> say I prefer this one :)) .

Well, the only reason |a| is popular for /@/ is that most spellings
are continent-inspired, I would say. This one, as you've seen, is not.

I like |i| for /@/ because in my opinion a simple, neutral shape such
as a vertical stroke is a good shape for a schwa. Gzarondan also has
|i| for /@/, incidentally.

> >   /T/   {hs}
> >   /D/   {hz}
> >   /N/   {yn}
>
> I especially love the last three ones!!! |hs| for /T/ and |hz| for /D/
> should be adopted in the official orthography!!! They are much more
> original than |th| :))) . I think |hs| as [T] or [D] is gonna appear in
> Maggel (but as an exception only, because the regular rule is that |hs|
> in Maggel marks [4] :))

I wanted something that never appears as two seperate consonants
(like "th" does in "pothole"), and then it was a straightforward step
to the idea that a digraph with a fricative should *still* be a
fricative and a digraph with a nasal should *still* be a nasal.

> About |yn| for /N/, does it mean that "singing" is then spelt |seyneyn|?
> Neat!

Exactly :-)

> > - Table of stress rules:
> > # If stressed nucleus followed by one or more consonants:
> >   Double the first consonant. If a digraph, double the {h} or {y}.
>
> If what is a digraph? And where would the first |h| or |y| come from if you
> have to double them?

Well, like "unhash" would be _unhahhs_.

> > # If the first half of a vowel cluster where the second half is /i/ or
> > /l=/
> >   Mark stress as though the whole cluster were the nucleus.
> >   example: _ambigyűittez_ ("ambiguities")
> > # If as above but the second half is not /i/ or /l=/
> >   Insert the normally implicit consonant followed by a 'h'.
> >   example: _sŕmeokaeyhos_ ("semichaos")
>
> "Implicit consonant"?

The implicit [j] in the above examples, for example. Light consonants
that are normally not marked.

> > - Note that some English words are stressed diffrerently depending on
> >   the context. Compare "the unseen horror" with "the horror was
> >   unseen". One could spell "unseen" _unseon_ / _unseonn_ respectively
> >   but I prefer _unnseonn_.
>
> So you actually mark both syllables as stressed? Strange but neat :)) . Do
> you do the same with noun/verb pairs like present/present?

No, if they're different words then they're spelt differently.

> > - Optional features might evolve into distinct spellings for words
> >   that are pronounced the same; the system is deliberately designed in
> >   such a way as to allow conventions and interpretations to evolve.
> >   For example since stress marking is meaningless for monosyllabic
> >   words it is sensible to spell "to", "too" and "two" _tű_, _tűh_ and
> >   _tűoh_ respectively.
>
> Hehe, a spelling reform that can easily evolve into an even more Maggelish
> system than English orthography already is ;))) . Neat-o.

That, as I said, is an exaggeration (oh wait, you included the word "can")
but I am glad you like it :-)

BTW, I've finished transcribing my reasonably long sample, and am now
doing a measurement of the relative frequencies of the letters.

Adrian.

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