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AUXLANG  September 2002, Week 1

AUXLANG September 2002, Week 1

Subject:

Re: auxiliary language communication

From:

Wei Chang <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:10:30 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (170 lines)

Many of my sayings have been misunderstood. So I
will attempt to clarify them in lines below.

--- On Thu 09/05, Kjell Rehnstrom  wrote:
From: Kjell Rehnstrom [mailto: [log in to unmask]]
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 11:53:05 +0200
Subject: Re: auxiliary language communication

> James Chandler wrote:
> > Wei Chang:
> >
> > > > Me esforcas riproduktar libri en la reto, quale li es ye
> papero.  Se
> > > > l'originala libro kontenus germana texto, me inkluzabus
> ol.
> > > Sorry. So someone "enforced you to reproduce freely in the
> > > Ret, quarling he is the paper."
> > > No communication!!
> > > Sorry, am not a native speaker of Romance languages.
> > > No time to learn them in addition.

>  These words are based not just on the romanic languages,
>  but also on Eng, Rus and Ger.  For instance, the
> root libr- is present in 'library'.

I do not claim that many words from Romanic languages
are not farflung. Many are very international -- and in
languages like the Turkish, Bengali, Indonisian, Tagalog,
even in the Japanese (often via English, but not every
time.)

These are good words. I do not call them imperialistic
anymore than Norman-origin words in English should be
called BAD because of 1066. Some people missed my point
on this (Sorry about "bayonets" -- not the right word,
I know.) Nor was I criticing Arabic Spanish German
French since "imperialist" languages. The opposite.
We must give attention to what the peoples DO KNOW,
no matter what ancient (or even more recent) history
is involved.

My complaint: people who write in the Tino, Romanica,
Interlingua, Communicando, Esperanto, Ido, etc. and so
expect everybody in the world MUST understand -- because
every educated personality SHOULD know Latin or romanic
languages. This is silly. All those funny pronouns coming
in odd orders, that reflexive stuff, genders, odd plurals,
-- this part is NOT globalised. Much of this is not known
in China, India, Africa, Turkic lands, Oceana, not even
known by average Russian or English speaker.

You say I SHOULD know what libr- means in your language,
(I guess it is "Communicando") if I don't know it, you
seems to think I'm stupid or badly educated. Maybe so.
But if I know roots, I might think your "libr-" meant
"pound" (mony or weight) or meant "balance" or "scales,"
or that it meant "free" or "liberty" or even meant the
"Libra -- a sign of the Western zodiac. How do I guess
what it means in Communicando??

Is "libr-" the word for "book" in Chinese, Hindi, English,
Arabic, Java, Bengali, German, Russian, Turkic, Urdu,
Japanese?? If I don't know French, Spanish, Port., or
Italian, will I know what you want to say?? Most of the
worlds' population knows none of those.

So, I have to learn what libr- means in your Communicando,
or whatever. That is OK--but takes the prior data (like
vocab. lists) and lots of study time.

Some of you presume that because my Indonesian friend
knows many romanic roots that he can guess what you
write in your neo-romanic. No, not without study. He
will study it--if worthwhile. Not if its of no value.

> > You seem to be saying the vocabulary of an IAL should
> > be based solely on Eng.

I don't know who said such a thing. But Eng. has
served to spread many words around. So has Portuguese,
Dutch, French, Arabic, etc.

> > This would make it
> > accessible to fewer people, even today, and be a
> > less equitable solution.  It would also be very
> > hard to devise a phonology
> > that would make it possible to take words only from Eng.

The whole idea is, I think, not good. Eng. phonology
and spelling are (many apologies) NO GOOD.

> My optimal international auxiliary language is one
> that makes use of the
> western common vocabulary.

Why "western" ?? Is Greek "western"?? Not so usually
taken as so. Is Russia?? Is Kazakstan?? Is Morocco??

Why not just say "comon vocabulary"??  Ah..!! Not one
word is "in common" to all the nations.!! Not even
"telephone" in the Chinese, Japanese, etc.!!

Best to say the "widely used word-bank" or some
such thing. Sience spreads many such roots.

Then you can have tofu, jihad, ninja, etc. Also you
use "western" words that go far into other lands.
Not use things known only to Latin scholars. (Sorry
Mr. Peano!!)

> Being at the stage that we are now, this is,
> as far as I understand, and considering the
> cultural circumstances where I live,

Which is located in the middle of what you call
"western" ?? What is the nearest not-Western
country to your home?

Do you hope that the eastern, southern, etc.
worlds will just go away.?? Sure you don't really,
but you seem to forget them--or consider them
(as they say) "beyond the pale.".

You see, you make your language FOR YOUR SELF,
not for ALL. There is a word for contemplating
your own navel, I forget it now. Not "onanism,"
I looked that up.

> the best for an international auxiliary language.
> It should as much as
> possible explain and make productive the type of
> vocabulary that we all  will
> have to learn in English, French, Spanish and a
> bunch of other European
> languages (understood in a very broad sence).

I have no big problem with that, as long as the
rest of the world is not forgot.

> I doubt that the occasional Arabic or Hindi word
> will make any difference as long as it not has
> become a houshold word in the major western
> languages (and  the lesser ones at that).
> Kjell R

But do you not care if it is in Bengali, Japanese,
Malaysian, kiSwahili, etc. -- even if NOT romanic
at all?? (This could easy happen if source is Eng.
and can happen in some patterns otherwise, like
science terms, many of which are psuedo-Greek.)

Why put "western" into a your favored formula??
Unless you want the result to be so very familiar
to you personally -- as own "navel language."??

Sorry, I do not meant to insult "Communicando" --
it just does not communicate to me in the way that
you seem to imagine that it should do so.

One persons' ideas.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 "." CHANG Wei
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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