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AUXLANG  November 2002, Week 4

AUXLANG November 2002, Week 4

Subject:

A miña neutralidade como auxilingüista (era: conjugachione2),

From:

fasilinguo <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 28 Nov 2002 01:33:27 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (181 lines)

    Na miña experiencia como interlingüista vin, con frecuencia, asociaren
as diversas linguas regularizadas e planificadas a concepcións relixiosas,
morais, políticas, sociais, etcétera. Tamén o románico, na concepción do
Josu Lavin, está asociado a certas ideoloxías (lingua tradicional neolatina
común, paneuropeísmo, etcétera).
    O Josu Lavin e os outros teñen dereito a iso, como o Zamenhof tiña
dereito á súa "interna ideo" e ó seu "homaranismo", como o Muhammad Selim,
co seu eurix, ten dereito á súa concepción socialista e relixiosa do
Califato Islámico da Europa. Hai máis exemplos.
    Eu, simplemente, digo que me nego a asociar unha lingua regularizada ou
planificada con esta ou aquela ideoloxía particular, e recomendo unha
neutralidade pública da lingua como tal lingua.
    Tomo o románico, pois, simplemente como unha lingua neolatina
regularizada de uso xeral, igual que o vascón unificado, "euskara batua".
Tamén existe a versión do vascón unificado feita polo Josu Lavin e outros
académicos; a cal considero de xeito simplemente utilitario e neutral,
especialmente no político.
    Como lingüista, digo que o latín non ten unha soa posibilidade no seu
desenrolo, senón varias, porque o signo lingüístico é unha convención. Non
hai, pois, un único xeito de facer unha lingua neolatina regularizada ou
planificada, senón moitos. Eu usarei indistintamente o máis cómodo para o
momento.
    Mais os feitos son os feitos e, independentemente das tendencias
políticas, cómpre respetalos.
    A ortografía moderna do castelán non é unha simple imposición do Estado
español. Esa ortografía xurde trala independencia da maioría dos Estados
hispanoamericáns (agás Cuba), e tivo que ser acordada pola Real Academia
Española coas academias correspondentes dos hispanoamericáns. Houbo intentos
secesionistas, como o do Andrés Bello, e non foron as xa inexistentes tropas
españolas no Cono Sur as que abortaron parcialmente o intento do Andrés
Bello, aínda máis foneticista na ortografía (rrei, lójico, zereza) có
proxecto da Real Academia Española. Persisten aínda hoxe diferencias
ortográficas entre o español e o castelán do Cono Sur.
    O centralismo político-lingüístico opresor da Real Academia Española é
innegable, como tamén o da Real Academia Galega ou o do Institut d'Estudis
Catalans; sobre isto último, basta preguntar ós falantes de valenciano.
    As cousas son bastante complexas, como adoita a pasar nos asuntos
sociolingüísticos.
    Paréceme bastante improbable (mais non imposible) que os eslavos e os
xermánicos acepten unha lingua neolatina como lingua oficial común das
institucións paneuropeas. A hibridación do románico unificado co vocabulario
xermánico i eslavo é moi escasa.

    Canto a "lacte", é a mellor forma na miña opinión para o románico
unificado. Con xénero neutro, non masculino como no luso (galego, portugués
e brasileiro) nin feminino como no castelán.
    Non hai relación empírica entre ortografía fonética e dictadura política
ou estupidización da xente. Doutra banda, a ortografía máis cómoda é,
precisamente, a ortografía fonética. E hai unha base común na pronuncia das
linguas neolatinas. Unha forma como "pronunsiasione", por exemplo, non é
nada arbitraria considerando os casos do francés, do italiano, do luso e do
castelán. Rompe coa ortografía tradicional, sí. Pero cultura e ortografía
arcaizante son cousas distintas, ben distintas. Lembremos que o castelán
escribiuse en alfabeto árabe i en alfabeto hebreo; lembremos tamén que o
rumanés usou o alfabeto cirílico, e que hoxe o serbocroata usa
simultaneamente o alfabeto cirílico e mailo latino. Non hai unha vinculación
necesaria entre lingua e ortografía. A forma "pronunsiasione" corresponde a
unha pronunciación neolatina real. Seguro que ninguén nesta lista aportará
unha argumentación empírica en contra.
    Négome a toda vinculación relixiosa (dogmática) entre cultura e
ortografía. Quero utilizala ortografía como mero medio técnico de
representación da lingua; a representación dun feito fundamentalmente oral.
    O sefardí, o haitiano e o papiamento usan frecuentemente o "k", cousa
que non converte en incultos ós seus falantes. Sexamos serios e obxetivos.
    Anuncio, doutra parte, que voume dedicar no románico unificado a algo
máis sustancioso ca discusións gramaticais.

    Deixo para o final o mais importante: o uso das linguas regularizadas ou
planificadas para dicir algo interesante intrinsecamente. Podería falar da
miña obra en galego regularizado "no corazón da berdade", un libro de
metafisica i esoterismo, mais por esta vez prefero remitirvos a un texto en
esperanto: "Al la tero returne". Eis un libro enormemente orixinal,
interesante polo que di e non por estar escrito en esperanto, un libro que,
traducido ó románico ou ó turco, conserva a súa vixencia. É facilmente
atopable gracias ás entusiastas redes de editores esperantistas.
    Eis o camiño, máis aló das inacabábeis e inúteis discusión sobre
gramática e ortografía.

    Do Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo.

----- Original Message -----

Cares collisteres,

Dice nos Alexandro:

>    Saúdos, Josu Lavin.
>    Naturalmente, teño dereito a facelas miñas aportacións ás diversas
linguas construidas e regularizadas. Que sexan novas ou >non as miñas
aportacións, pouco me importa. Naturalmente, en xeral non son novas, porque
a interlingüística xa ten unha gran >tradición científica detrás.

Romanica est una altra cosa. Nos in Vasconia habemos unificato las linguas
vasconicas, las quales presentan majores differentias inter se que la
majoritate de las lingua romanicas.
Las differentias inter le galaicoportugese que tu scribes et le espaniol son
minimas. Istas differentias in euskara son majores de un village al altro.
Io debo decir te lo altra vice ROMANICA non est una lingua construita. Illa
est LA LINGUA ROMANICA UNIFICATA, il est dicer, LE LATINO NATURALMENTE
DISVELOPPATO.
La Lingua Romanica est parlata actualmente per centos de milliones de
personas in toto le mundo, los quales haben pronunciationes distinctas. Per
ista ration, la LINGUA ROMANICA non pote optar per una pronunciation
inflexibile. Nos debemos propugnar una pronunciation commun, ma non
inflexibile. La graphia non pote submetter se a una pronunciation arbitraria
et personalista como tu propones.
Isto ultimo, como galaico que es, debereas saper lo.
Le espaniol ha una orthographia quasi-phonetica, perque desde le Stato
Centralista han volito imponer una pronunciation commun pro totos los
espanioles.
In espaniol LACTE est scripta LECHE, perque est /LECHE/ la pronunciation que
volen imponer a galaicos et catalanes, a fin que disparan formas como LEITE
et LLET.
Per que' non volen los espanioles una forma como LACTE et postea que cata
uno pronuncie como vola? Non, illes volen imponer su LECHE, su mala LECHE.
Per que' un catalan sta obligato a apprender a dicer LECHE lo que ille jam
sape dicer ben quando dice LLET?
Nos habemos le derecto a unificar nostras linguas romanicas (nos lo habemos
jam facto!) preservando lor existentia autonoma?
La coexistentia de las actuales linguas et dialectos romanicos con LA LINGUA
ROMANICA UNIFICATA est alique totalmente positivo.
Per altro latere, Romanica est la unica et sola lingua hybridata con totas
las linguas de Europa.
Romanica pote esser la lingua commun de la Union Latina (formata per 35
paises) et la lingua commun in los futuros STATOS UNITOS DE EUROPA.

In ista question tu mentalitate est typicamente espaniola. Que forma
propones tu in vice de LACTE pro le romanico/romaniche?



Cares collisteres,

Dice nos nostro collistero Alexandro:

>     Saúdos, Xosé.
>     Estás mal informado sobre o "h" inicial do castelán, procedente do "f"
> latino.
>     Ese "h" aspirouse nunha primeira etapa. Despois do século dezaseis é
> xeralmente mudo, aínda que dialectalmente na Andalucía continúa a ser
> aspirado.

Non solo in le sud de Espania est pronunciata la H aspirata. Anque hodie in
Cantabria (in le nord) existe la H aspirata.

>     O "h" tomado do latín foi xeralmente mudo dende o comezo no castelán.
>     Tamén o "h" das linguas vascas é xeralmente mudo xa, mais aínda é
> pronunciado na costa. Sobre isto último, mellor pregunta ó Josu Lavin.

In la Vasconia continental in le sud de Francia la H est hodie aspirata et
il ha consonantes aspiratas como KH, PH et TH.
Ista PH non ha le sono de la PH de Romanica. Illa est una P aspirata.

>     Non acepto o academicismo, e por tanto non acepto que unha Academia do
> Románico fixe as formas correctas desa lingua. Iso é, de novo, o típico
> artificialismo do esperanto, artificialismo absurdo i estéril.

La Academia pro Lingua Romanica est multo flexibile. Alicunos dicen que
troppo difficile.

>     Usarei o románico como me pete, procurando chegar a acordos mais sen
> imposicións dos académicos.

Que' impositiones?

>     Direi agora algo aínda máis importante: a gramática, a ortografía, a
> lóxica, o vocabulario, etcétera son cousa simplemente utilitaria e moi
> secundaria para min. O que conta é dicir algo interesante na lingua.

Como per exemplo, que'?

Le espaniol et le galaicoportugese que tu scribes son linguas romanicas, il
est a dicer, dialectos de la Lingua Romanica, que per prima vice in la
historia ha essito stabilita per duas personas: Richard Sorfleet et Josu
Lavin. Romanica est mi lingua materna unificata, habendo in conto les altres
parlatores de linguas romanicas.

Josu Lavin
Membro de la Academia pro Lingua Romanica
************************************

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December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
August 2006, Week 2
August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
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February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
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January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
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May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
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May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
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October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
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July 1998, Week 5
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June 1998, Week 5
June 1998, Week 4
June 1998, Week 3
June 1998, Week 2
June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
May 1998, Week 2
May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 5
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
December 1997, Week 2
December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 5
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
November 1997, Week 2
November 1997, Week 1
October 1997, Week 5
October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
October 1997, Week 2
October 1997, Week 1
September 1997, Week 5
September 1997, Week 4
September 1997, Week 3
September 1997, Week 2
September 1997, Week 1
August 1997, Week 5
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August 1997, Week 1
July 1997, Week 5
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July 1997, Week 3
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July 1997, Week 1
June 1997, Week 5
June 1997, Week 4
June 1997, Week 3
June 1997, Week 2
June 1997, Week 1
May 1997, Week 5
May 1997, Week 4
May 1997, Week 3
May 1997, Week 2
May 1997, Week 1
April 1997, Week 5
April 1997, Week 4
April 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 2
April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 5
February 1997, Week 4
February 1997, Week 3
February 1997, Week 2
February 1997, Week 1

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