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CONLANG  November 2002, Week 4

CONLANG November 2002, Week 4

Subject:

Re: General

From:

"Isaac A. Penzev" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:14:19 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (75 lines)

Sorry for quite late entering into discussion -- I had quite a busy
Yom-rishon (aka Sunday) -- Chanukkah is near, ya see...

Adding my two kopecks into the topic:

to David Peterson who wrote:

<<<And so we won't be discussing English pronunciation anymore, I was taught
to pronounce the Russian "i kratkayka" as [i-j], a diphthoing, whereas the
traditional pronounciation is simply [i-]. How do you all pronounce it?>>>

1. The character name is "i kratkoye".
2. It should be pronounced as [j] initially (which is extremely rare case),
and make a glide [i_^] in falling diphthong by sticking to the previous
vowel. I didn't hear much difference in this case in various dialects.

to Peter Clark who wrote:

<<<It represents [j] (most of the time) although there are a couple of
instances in which it can be realized as a diphthong, usually vowel +
[i].>>>

Vice versa. V+[i] is normal. [j] is exceptional, like in |jod| [jOt]
"iodine", |Jemen|["jem@n] "Yemen" and |joga| ["jOg@] "yoga". What are the
words starting with "i-kratkoye"? Only loans!

<<<In any case, when I was in St. Pete, I don't think I ever heard a
diphthong, but I have a vague memory of some Russian speaker telling me
about other Russian dialects (we were on the topic of "funny-sounding
dialects). This,
however, could be a mistake.>>>

"I-kratkoye" itself is never pronounced as diphthong, but it often
constitutes one.
Dialects? Yes, they are weird sometimes, but they are rapidly dying.

to Pavel Iosad who wrote:

<<<Well, that's a bad example, because it's one of those highly reduced
etiquette words, so most of the time it's [p(s=)"Za5st@] or something
along these lines>>>

Agree 100%. That's much close to reality than Peter's [p@"Zal@st@].

<<<Errm, not quite. In many cases, you'll hear an approximant-ish [C] in
pre-pausal position.>>>

What??? I may be deaf... Is it a new Moscow fashion?

<<<Actually, the [j] is seldom pronounced pre/postvocalically - the usual
realization is a bit of a fronting in the corresponding part of the
vowel segment (easily seen on a spectrogram), like the one seen
before/after palatalized consonants, but more distinct.>>>

I wish I could understand what you mean :-)

<<<In careful speech and phrase-initially, it is [j] all right.>>>

But makes you sound like a foreigner. Vote for [i_^]!

again to Peter Clark who wrote:

<<<Just out of curiousity, how do you pronounce "shch"--the Russian guides
here all say it's like "freSH CHeese," but I've only heard it as [S:]; for
instance,
[jE"S:_jo]. Or maybe [jES."S_jo]?>>>

[StS_j]? It's posh... Everybody but TV announcers say [S:_j].

Wahh, it's getting too long...

Yitzik
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
to be continued

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