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CONLANG  December 2002, Week 1

CONLANG December 2002, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Re: Láadan

From:

Sally Caves <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 7 Dec 2002 00:43:13 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (246 lines)

Okay, Peter, I'll take up your challenge here, as a WOMAN, responding to the
LAadan word as well as to your wife's reactions.  I've seen this list; I've
got the grammar book they occur in:

Sally
[log in to unmask]
http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/teonaht.html

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Clark" <[log in to unmask]>
>
>         I printed out a copy and handed it to my wife, asking her to
comment on them.
> Her comments are below the word; "No" indicates that she doesn't feel the
> word is needed or important, "Yes" indicates that it might be needed or
> important, "Yes!" indicates her feeling that it would be very nice to have
> such a lexical item. "-" means "neither here nor there, no opinion." I
> removed words that already have English counterparts.
> ---
> ashon love for one who is not related by blood but is heart-kin
        I would like to see this word in use.  I've had a number of
        friends that I've regarded as family more than other friends
        of mine.
>
> azháadin to menopause uneventfully
        Sure!  Why not?

> dólhorado to dominate with evil intent
        We don't need this one.

> doóledosh pain or loss which comes as a relief because it brings to an end
the
> anticipation of its arrival
        Yes!   I agree with Peter's wife.

> doólelasholan alone at last, after putting up with tiresome people
        Yes!   Ditto!

> edama the science of touch -- touch-science
        I'm not sure what this means.  Is this sort of like "horse
whispering"?
        Is it the art of massage?

> éeme love for one neither liked nor respected
>         Yes       Ditto.  You can love a child who is a criminal or a
fool.

> hena sibling by birth
            Where's the originality in this?

> héena sibling of the heart
            Oh, I see.   This is an alternative to the word above.  Two
different
            kinds of "siblings."  Okay, I get it.  Your sister and your
"sister."

> honáal the hours between midnight and dawn
>         No (She must have been an insomniac.)
            Very much disagree.  The Old English have a word for this dark
            hour -- uhtan--  it literally means "before dawn," but it's used
            poetically and psychologically for that hour when the depressive
            wakes up and contemplates his or her dismal condition.  As an
            insomniac, and occasional depressive, I can totally relate.

> lalal mother's milk
>         As opposed to cow's milk?   Maybe.

> lewidan to be pregnant for the first time
            Absolutely!!   To have sex for the first time has its term in a
lot
            of languages.  Defloration.  Taking one's "maidenhead."   To
give
            birth for the first time is another threshold passed for the
woman.
            I will adopt "first pregnancy and birth" into Teonaht!

> lirini an achievement that seems small to other, but means a lot to the
> achiever
         Yes!     Agreed.  Good word.

> méhéna compassion despite negative circumstances
         Yes     I would agree here, too.

> móna compassion for foolish reasons
        Hmmm.  Actually, might be useful.  The person who is too polite
        to accuse someone of stealing, and let's him pick his pocket.
        We're supposed to be wise as serpents and as gentle as doves.
        This kind of person is all dove and no serpent.

> múna compassion for bad reasons
        Agree with Peter's wife.   Eh...

> uhud nuisance
        We have this word already.

> nehena contentment despite negative circumstances
        Possibly.  Foolish or careless contentment.  Undiscerning
contentment.

> niná the one responsible
        Can't we express this concept already?

> ninálh the one to blame
        We have "culprit."

> núháam to feel oneself cherished, cared for, nurtured by someone
        Echo Peter's wife's "no."

> nuna contentment for bad reasons '
        Isn't that the same as "nehena" above?

> ohehena respect despite negative circumstances
        Well, there's Bush isn't there? <G>

> óothanúthul spiritual orphanhood; being utterly bereft of a spiritual
> community
         Yes.   Ditto.

> radama to non-touch; to actively refrain from touching
         Yes!    Ditto with enthusiasm.

> radamalh to non-touch with evil intent
        The previous word was sufficient.

> radena unfriendliness for good reasons
        Covered by our "healthy suspicion."

> radíidin non-holiday, a time allegedly a holiday but actually so much a
burden
> because of work and preparations that it's a dreaded occasion; especially
> when there are too many guests and none of them help
        It's already called "Christmas."

> radodelh non-interface, a situation which has not one single point in
common
> on which to base interaction, often used of personal relationships
        I echo Peter's wife's question mark.

> radona unfriendliness for foolish reasons
        Eh...

> rahéena non-heart-sibling; one so entirely incompatible with another that
> there is no hope of ever achieving any kind of understanding or anything
more
> than a truce, and no hope of ever making such a one understand why (does
not
> mean "enemy")
>         Yes
        This I would agree to.  I had a friend like this.

> rahom to non-teach; to deliberately fill students' minds with empty data
or
> false information
        Why would anybody do that?  I can see how it can be done, but why
        deliberately?   I'm beginning to understand somebody else's prior
remark
        that LAadan seems unnecessarily negative in its nomenclature.  All
the
        ra- words seem to serve this function.

> ralith to deliberately refrain from thinking about something, to wall if
off
> in one's mind by deliberate act
         Yes
        Okay, this is not entirely negative.  It can be a defense mechanism.

> rarulh non-synergy, that which when combined only makes things worse
        Seems mysterious.  I don't understand it.

> rashida non-game, a cruel "playing" that is a game only for the dominant
> player who has the power to force others to participate
        Nah.

> rathom non-pillow; a "lean on me so I can step aside and let you fall"
person
> sham love for the child of one's body, presupposing neither love nor
respect
> nor their absence
        Well, I've known parents like that.

> shol absence-of-pain
>         Yes!
            Agreed.  I like.  But don't we have "contentment"?

> thehena joy despite negative circumstances
>         Yes
            Eh...

> thuna joy for good reasons
>         - (Duh!)
            Ditto.

> wesháana to menstruate late
        Very useful.  How about "to skip a period"?  Even more useful.

> widazhad to be pregnant late in term and eager for the end
>         Yes!
            Agreed.  What about giving birth too early?

> wina gratitude for no reason
>         No (no such thing)
            Agreed.

> wonewith to be socially dyslexic; uncomprehending of the social signals of
> others
>         Yes!
            Absolutely.  I have called such people "socially deaf."

> wóo evidence morpheme indicating the speaker/writer's total lack of
knowlege
> as to the validity of what is said or written
        I'm not against evidence morphemes.  But it keeps you from lying.
<G>

----------
>         Of the seven concepts that she marked "Yes!", she did not feel
that the
> absence of any of them particularily hindered or handicapped her in any
> way--rather, it was more of "Oh, that would be very nice to have in
English."
> She did not feel that any of them filled a significant gap, but that she
> could communicate the feelings or situations behind the terms with little
> problem. Of the seven, I can think of several instances in which she
> communicated five of them to me--doóledosh, doólelasholan, lirini,
widazhad
> (not on her part, but about other women), and wonewith.
>         I'd still like to hear from some women on the list if they have
any opinion
> about it, but so far it doesn't seem as though there are any significant
gaps
> to be filled.

My peeve, Peter, about LAadan, has to do with my sense that this has to be a
language for WOMEN.  Why can't it be a language for men AND women?  In being
so, it introduces men to women's concerns, and it allows women to
communicate them to men.  I always felt that having a language for women
only walls women off that much further from the public sphere.  Mary
Wollstonecraft decried this in her _Vindication of the Rights of Woman_ in
1798; what are we doing trying to create another private sphere for women
where they talk only with other women?  Teach such a language to men and
women, with the evidentials, with the specialized vocabulary for emotions
and relationships.  Language should equalize.

Yours faithfully,
Sally

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February 2007, Week 4
February 2007, Week 3
February 2007, Week 2
February 2007, Week 1
January 2007, Week 5
January 2007, Week 4
January 2007, Week 3
January 2007, Week 2
January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
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September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
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August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
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August 2001, Week 1
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July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
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October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
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September 2000, Week 2
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August 2000, Week 3
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June 2000, Week 5
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June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
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May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
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July 1999, Week 5
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June 1999, Week 5
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June 1999, Week 1
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April 1999, Week 5
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April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
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March 1999, Week 3
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March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
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February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
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January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
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November 1998, Week 3
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November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
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October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3

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