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CONLANG  January 2003, Week 2

CONLANG January 2003, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Several phonetic questions

From:

Jeff Jones <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:46:33 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (51 lines)

On Sun, 12 Jan 2003 02:26:04 -0500, Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>{: Msgr
jsK}

>Muke Tever wrote:
>
>(snip good and useful replies to Mr. Johnson's questions)
>>> whats the difference between [a] and [A]? I've heard that [a] is the
>>> vowel in "father" while [A] is the vowel in "ought", but I think I
>>> pronounce these vowels the same way. Is this because "father" and
>>> "ought" use the same vowel in some dialects of English but not in
>>> others? Or is it just that the difference is very subtle? or what?
>
>> [A] is a back vowel, [a] is a front one.  [a] is not in General American
>> English, tho [A] is. Not everyone makes a distinction between the first
>> vowel in 'father' and the one in 'ought', but IIRC the first is [A] and
>> the second one is [O].
>
> Right on the last point.  But I seem to have learned a different brand of
> phonetics back in the 60s, where [a] was the low _central_ vowel of
> 'father' etc. as well as  RP 'cup'.  IPA "inverted a" (or is it "script
> a"?) was low back unrounded, IIRC, XSampa [A], and according to my
> teacher only found dialectally in the US......Ah well, 40 years ago.......
>
> The front vowels from high to low were: i I e E &. Period.  There was a
> low-ish frontish vowel, but retracted from [&] position-- "a with a heavy
> dot on the upper left curve" --which represented "Boston a" as in 'park,
> car, Harvard' etc.-- still to be heard from the mouth of Senator E.
> Kennedy and in old recordings of JFK and RFK. (A ghastly sound, IMHO,
> despite my admiration for JFK). That was a special symbol which I believe
> has been discontinued. So maybe "[a]" has taken over that spot?? But
> then, what is the low central vowel?

I'm glad you brought that up, Roger. What you've described was pretty much
what I learned originally (except that I don't remember the specific
symbols). That was one reason I was confused when I joined the list.
I think some Southern US speakers distinguish a long frontish [a] (/ai/)
from the central variety (/ar/). The frontish [a] seems to be as far front
as a fully low vowel can go, yet it doesn't affect velars the way the other
front vowels do.

>> [a] is the 'a' in Spanish.
> Sorry, this is unclear.  To me, the "vowel in Spanish" [sp&nIS] is the
> same vowel as 'cat'.  Or did you mean "the vowel _of_ Spanish" e.g. _la,
> casa, madre_ etc???? That would be my interpretation.  [a] is also French
> a (madame, ša, Chirac, etc.) as far as I know.
> Aargh. Sampa, schmampa.

I agree.

Jeff

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