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CONLANG  January 2003, Week 3

CONLANG January 2003, Week 3

Subject:

Re: my proposals for a philosophical language

From:

Garth Wallace <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:28:03 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (91 lines)

Andrew Nowicki wrote:
> Andrew Nowicki wrote:
> AN> The root words must be made in such a way that
> An> it is clear where is the beginning and the end
> AN of each root word.
>
> "H. S. Teoh" wrote:
> HST> Why?
>
> This is the same problem as recognizing where
> one word ends and another word begins. Novice
> speakers of English are lost when they listen
> to fast spoken English.

Novice speakers of *any* language have this problem. If you're new to a
language, it's just hard to follow along at the speed that native
speakers are used to.

> We agree that consonant clusters are not
> desirable. Consider a language that has
> only two letters long root words. There
> are only two options: vowel-consonant (VC)
> or consonant-vowel (CV).
>
> Three letters long root words must be either
> CVV or VVC. CVC will result in consonant
> clusters. VCV has lots of vowels, but few
> consonants. It sounds nice, but there are few
> vowels in any alphabet, so the total number
> of VCV root words is much smaller than the
> total number of CVC root words. Another problem
> with VCV and CVC is that they may be confused
> with two letters long root words -- you would
> not know where the root words begin and end.
> For that reason CVC and VCV root words must
> not be mixed with CV and VC root words.
>
> VC and VCC roots can be used in the same
> word. The same is true of CV and CVV roots.
> At present Ygyde uses only CV roots but it
> can be extended with CVV roots. The total
> number of CV and CVV roots is on the order
> of one thousand. What do you do when you
> need more roots? You are in big trouble.
> You cannot mix CV and CVCV roots because
> nobody will know if CVCV is one root or two
> roots.

Unless, of course, the first syllable of the CVCV root isn't found by
itself as a CV root. Even that would work, if they are never found in
the same place in the sentence.

> CVVV sounds pathetic to me.

Hawaiians don't seem to mind it...

> HST> So back to languages... I'm not saying
> HST> you have to invent an entire culture for
> HST> Ygyde -- but just an underlying philosophy,
> HST> or a motto, or something, that is reflected
> HST> in the more difficult parts of the language.
> HST> Then you don't *need* artificial restrictions
> HST> like the number of root words, etc.. Languages
> HST> do, and *will*, change. Even artificial
> HST> languages will change -- people always adapt
> HST> language to their own cultural context.
> HST> You cannot control a language by enforcing
> HST> grammatical or lexical rules. just look at
> HST> how futile the efforts of language reformers
> HST> are. In spite of efforts to "fix" so-called
> HST> incorrect pronunciation of English (esp. in
> HST> places where English is not a native language),
> HST> Malay, etc., people still continue to
> HST> "mispronounce" them. You can reform the
> HST> language of one generation, but the children
> HST> will inevitably change it to their own
> HST> tastes, and there's nothing you can do to
> HST> stop them. But you *can* guide a language
> HST> with an underlying philosophy, or motto,
> HST> which people can pick up very quickly while
> HST> learning the language.
>
> It is easy to change pronunciation and add more
> root words, but it seems impossible to change the
> meaning of existing root words or to change Ygyde's
> prefix table.

It's hardly impossible. The meanings of words drift over time. "Hussy"
used to mean housewife, now it means a rudely-behaved woman. It's not
something you can really control.

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