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CONLANG  March 2003, Week 1

CONLANG March 2003, Week 1

Subject:

Re: OT-ish: txt - Could it replace Standard Written English?

From:

"H. S. Teoh" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 6 Mar 2003 14:47:33 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (64 lines)

On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 01:59:09PM -0500, John Cowan wrote:
> H. S. Teoh scripsit:
>
> > IMAO, creativity does not come from sloppiness. True creativity is not
> > hindered by discipline; rather, discipline enables it to develop and
> > flourish.
>
> True enough if you focus on the product of creativity.  Focusing on the
> process, however, makes it sensible to try to get structure right before
> getting details right.  Getting hung up on details is a good way to never
> be able to start writing anything at all.

Certainly. I'm not suggesting you drown the student with 1001 grammatical/
spelling mistakes from the Rulebook of the Pedants. That is what teachers
get paid for: to help students learn. That means appropriate corrections
to help the students to eventually attain to a proficient level of
writing. That does NOT mean keeping a blind eye over mistakes, and neither
should it be an excuse to not teach what is necessary.

> When I am tutoring writers, I say "Get it on paper, never mind if it's
> right!"  This does not mean that I think it's reasonable to submit a
> paper full of spelling or other mechanics errors.  But one can fix those
> last, or even hire someone else to fix them.  They aren't about
> *thinking* clearly.

You're dealing with a different side of the story here. Thinking clearly
is one thing, being able to express that thought process in a clear way
through grammatical constructions is another. It's possible to be
grammatically impeccable yet be completely obtuse in the flow of thought;
I'm not suggesting that's OK.

As for getting it on paper first, without regard for grammatical errors, I
also agree with you; with many creative processes, you need a
brainstorming period where you temporarily suspend rigid rules so that an
idea can be fully explored. But afterwards, if one does not have a proper
grasp of grammar, how can said idea be adequately expressed?

> > Exactly. I find these "correcting X hinders Y" arguments extremely
> > ludicrous.
>
> They aren't ludicrous.  Students who get back a four page paper with 100
> red marks on it are likely to give up and throw the thing in the trash
> rather than try again.  "Correcting" -- in the sense "providing
> corrections or indications thereof" -- may indeed inhibit writing.
[snip]

You don't subject a grade 5 essay to the standards of grade 12 writing
guidelines. Given a high enough standard, you can always find fault with
any piece of writing. But as you point out, this is probably not very
constructive. You need to progressively help a student with corrections,
not to overwhelm the student, but so that eventually the student will
reach an acceptable level of profiency.

But my point was that this doesn't justify the lack of *any* standards
whatsoever. Not overwhelming a student with corrections is not the same as
providing no corrections because of lack of standards.


T

--
Computers are like a jungle: they have monitor lizards, rams, mice, c-moss,
binary trees... and bugs.

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