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AUXLANG Home

AUXLANG  March 2003, Week 3

AUXLANG March 2003, Week 3

Subject:

Re: The need for an alternative

From:

Kjell Rehnstrom <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 19 Mar 2003 08:33:47 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (167 lines)

Javier BF wrote:

> (...)
> Educational value? That *should* have??
> What are you talking about? An IAL should be a
> tool for COMUNICATION, not a tool for spreading
> the education about some privileged
> cultures/languages.

As long as the world looks as it does, it is just hampering persons having them
learning a language wich has nothing common with the Western languages, e.g.
English and Spanish.

Our oppinions are different here. I believe that an auxlang must have as many
additional features than just communication as possible as long as it is mainly
idealism and curiosity that make us learn them.

It has not been effortless to me to learn the English I know or Spanish (as
much as I have had a need for). Interlingua has acted in the positive way for
me to give me a summing up of the international vocabulary. That's OK with me.

My experiences from teaching Swedish to people with Arabic, Persian and East
Asian background has also indicated that those who have the best success are
those who already know some English, French or Spanish. So I imagine that if an
Arabic, Persian or Chinese teacher had the opportunity to teach a bunch of kids
interlingua this would give them a head start into the Western Languages that
they have to learn in our days.

Because when they come to the West and have to learn English or some other
European langauge (Swedish, Finnish) they will be better off if they already
have had the strange things in Standard Western explained to them by a good
teacher who knows their own language).


> >A movement
> >for a non-Euroclone, succeeding in gaining a broad following will be able
> >to seal
> >off the outside world from them and would form a kind of language sect.
>
> Oh, yes, sure. So, if you don't connect with
> the Westerners, as one wouldn't do with e.g.
> a Chinoclone or an Araboclone, then you're
> sealed from the outside world. I can't believe
> the degree of ego- and euro-centrism you're
> showing here, really.

As I understand the thing Chinese and Arabic are - in their written forms - a
sort of "transnational written hight-languages" that the persons using them
have to learn beside their own dialect, which is in many cases more of a
language than dialect. But as both the Arab and the Chinese worlds are highly
censored domains - as is my picture of them - English is more worth wile
learning than Chinese or Arabic provided you are not going to live in the
countries where the languages are spoken, because then you _should_ learn them,
no discussion about that.

But I will only take care of my own problem. And I am here in Sweden. The
question might be put seriously if I at all should take an interest in
something else than English. Am I not just thoughing away lots of time trying
to learn even Spanish?!

And I say "No!" Through the French I know from school, the Spanish and
Interlingua I have learnt on my own I have widended my horizons. My efforts in
learning Spanish have aided my Interlingua and my interlingua has aided my
comprehension of French and Spanish. This has been a benefit for me.

What would I earn from knowing Arabic here in Sweden. To read the official
analyses in Al Ahram? Hmm, perhaps, but are the results worth the time
invested. Perhaps in a more intelligent person than the undersigned.


> >As far as
> >I understand, all but momentanous domination of all the world will create a
> >sect
> >that is working in its own unknown lingo, that nobody else understands, and
> >the
> >more different from everything else it is, the more work you will have to
> >put
> >into the work of learning it, and the less you will know other significant
> >languages, like English and/or French (to mention just a few).
>
> Oh, and so only European languages are worth
> learning then? What about an Araboclone which
> would drastically increase the worldwide
> knowledge of a language that one third of the
> world's population believes to be the language
> used directly by God to reveal the Koran to
> the Prophet?

I thougnt God Allmighty already knows all language, Swedish included! :-)


> Or what about a Chinoclone, which would drastically increase the degree of
> worldwide knowledge of a language with a
> millenary culture and which is spoken in the
> most populated country in the world and the
> one with more probabilities to become the
> leading world power in the second half of
> this century?

But of course. Both an Arabo- or a Chinoclone are interesting things, but they
have not yet been invented. And I doubt that it is the right way for me to
device such a thing. If there is interest in such a thing some Arab or Chinese
will do the job.

For the time being English and Spanish are the bridge-languages for me if I
want to talk to a Hakka, a speaker of Quechua, or an Arab. And it is not much I
can do about that.

> >When you have got some million active users who all are in more or less
> >immediate
> >contact with eachother, then you don't have to bother about this or that
> >grammatical feature. The general usage will take care of that.
>
> Oh... and what would happen when there's some
> grammatical feature that causes serious problems
> for Asians, such as compulsory number or tense,
> that would surely be the general usage among those
> first million active users because that's what
> they're used to because they are native speakers
> of Western languages?

When there ar enough speakers of our Euroclone, and when these speakers are
east-Asian or Arabic they will make the changes necessary. As the language is
an artificial one, nobody's native language, it is not such a big deal if
somebody misses the correct use of the article in one place or the other and if
someone misses the use of numerus. It is much harder with a national language
like English. I am sure I have already indused nervous break downs in you all
reading this piece of mine, pretending to be good English. ;-)


> >The beginning is the trick. And then the question is: should the language
> >be easy
> >to understand as Interlingua,
>
> Interlingua easy to understand?! For whom?

For thouse who already have learnt the Western vocabulary one way or the other.
As I haven't got the means to interest Chinese or Arabs in the use of an
international language I have to use the means I have to my disposition, and
this is the language itself.

I am not interested in what others can do about an international auxiliary
language, I am interested in what I can do myself. And even though I don't
speak any Romance language well enough, they help me in understanding
Interlingua, and I am certainly not the only one being in that situation.

> >or very regular in a certain way like Esperanto?
> >Well, that is a quasion that the language market will decide on.
>
> And so, as the ones in that market who have their
> purses most full are precisely the Westerners,
> then the problem is solved: a Euroclone like
> Interlingua, with all the inconveniences it
> will cause for non-westerners, clearly wins the
> commercial battle because it's the one that
> offers more advantages for the Westerners that
> are the only ones really worth caring about,
> right?

Appart from a national language the users of Interlingua will in a future,
provided that I have understood the situation correctly, be able to introduce
the changes that are necessary for them, but that thing is not for me to decide
on. My most honest action will be to provide what I can do, and others will
give their share...

Kjell R

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