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CONLANG  August 2003, Week 3

CONLANG August 2003, Week 3

Subject:

Re: R in the nordic countries was: Re: Ergativity/Apologies

From:

Chris Bates <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:41:26 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (77 lines)

No matter how hard I practice I am not actually able to pronounce my own
english r properly when it is not followed by a vowel. If I try, I get r
followed by a short schwa.... however, I can pronounce uvular r when its
not followed by a vowel. Its not a matter of laziness... I just have
real difficulty with learning most r sounds, I've tried very hard to
learn how to pronounce an alveolar trill for spanish and because its a
common sound in languages or seems to be, but I just can't make my
tongue vibrate like that. Maybe I'll get it in another year or so... I
can always hope.

>>Date:         Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:47:28 +0300
>>From: Markus Miekk-oja <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject:      Re: [CONLANG] R in the nordic countries was: Re:
>>
>>
>
>Do I dare to throw in my 1,68 eurocents? This bothers me...
>
>
>
>>>>I've always thought that finnish or maybe
>>>>swedish would be an interesting language to learn, although of course
>>>>I'd still have the problem that I can't get the rs right (same problem
>>>>in spanish :( )... finnish has an alveolar trilled r doesn't it? Is an
>>>>uvular r an acceptable substitute or does it make you sound wrong?
>>>>
>>>>
>>Finnish: I've got distant cousins who have uvular r (they are somewhat
>>well-off, though, so I guess that's got something to do with it), I use
>>trilled r (which I also have as the main allophone of my Swedish r too).
>>My Swedish r varies between approximant and trill depending on
>>style/dialect/loudness and phonetic realization.
>>
>>
>
>I think uvular r is also what Suvianne Siimes (a politician) uses... It sounds
>like a speech defect to me. Of course, I can't know for sure. Stranger things
>are done on purpose.
>Still, if my aesthetical opinion counts, I would really prefer an Anglo-American
>speaker to substitute the trill in Finnish with whatever he uses in English
>- approximant? - as long as he remembers to pronounce it in the ends of syllables.
>If one has to have an accent, I do find it would be best to at least use
>one's own.
>
>Anyway, probably most Finnish children can't yet manage [r] at their third
>birthday, so if it takes one three years to learn it, one would still have
>beaten Finns. :)
>
>Some of my cousins use a quite original sound, which apparently consists
>of a tap or a few trills plus a short lateral and sounds particularly nice.
>And for some reason, I seem to associate a fricativish r with Southwestern
>Finland... but I do not know much about the Western dialects.
>
>
>(As for Swedish, by the way, I have lately picked the common habit to realize
>/rd/, /rl/, /rn/ as [r\`d`], [r\`l`], [r\`n`], which I truth to speak find
>rather ugly sounding, but like the way it *feels*... ;) )
>
>
>
>
>>- Markus Miekk-oja
>>
>>
>
>
>- M. Astrand
>"Neeba." - "Teeba?" - "Qeesvefar la:lka." - "Djo:ly."
>"Guess what?" - "What?" - "I've learned how to speak." - "Great."
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Kuukausimaksuton nettiyhteys: http://www.suomi24.fi/liittyma/
>Yli 12000 logoa ja soittoääntä: http://sms.suomi24.fi/
>
>
>

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