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CONLANG  August 2003, Week 3

CONLANG August 2003, Week 3

Subject:

Re: R in the nordic countries was: Re: Ergativity/Apologies

From:

Chris Bates <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:50:23 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (89 lines)

Its easier for me to pronounce a uvular r in some positions than my
normal one yes... I think it has to do with my dialect of english. In my
dialect (non-rhotic) rs that are word final or followed by a consonant
are not pronounced or I can't think of any examples anyway... I find it
very difficult to pronounce my native r in that kind of position and
tend to insert a short schwa as I said after it if I try. But for some
reason I don't have a problem pronouncing uvular r in most positions
(but not all positions... etre in french always gets me, as christophe
said I think its the sonority priniciple... was that what the list
called it? the actually pronunciation is etR... I tend to end up with
etR@_X...) where I can't pronounce my native r. I've never been good at
rs though, I can't really pronounce any others... I can pronounce or at
least get close to quite a lot of non english sounds, especially the
back of the throat ones for some reason... but I can't manage most rs.

>>Date:         Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:41:26 +0100
>>From: Chris Bates <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject:      Re: [CONLANG] R in the nordic countries was: Re:
>>
>>No matter how hard I practice I am not actually able to pronounce my own
>>english r properly when it is not followed by a vowel. If I try, I get r
>>followed by a short schwa.... however, I can pronounce uvular r when its
>>not followed by a vowel. Its not a matter of laziness... I just have
>>real difficulty with learning most r sounds, I've tried very hard to
>>learn how to pronounce an alveolar trill for spanish and because its a
>>common sound in languages or seems to be, but I just can't make my
>>tongue vibrate like that. Maybe I'll get it in another year or so... I
>>can always hope.
>>
>>
>
>So it's actually easier for you to pronounce an uvular r than your normal
>one?! I'm sorry; I thought you thought it was closer to the trilled one,
>which I don't think it is, and suspected you felt it sounded in some obscure
>way more "foreign", in which I could not see any point, since it sounds exactly
>as unusual in Finnish.
>Epenethetic vowels are not too bad either, though. They are quite common
>in dialects (and sometimes even lengthened).
>
>
>
>
>>Date:         Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:51:20 +0200
>>From: Andreas Johansson <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject:      Re: [CONLANG] R in the nordic countries was: Re:
>>
>>Quoting "M. Astrand" <[log in to unmask]>:
>>
>>
>>
>>>(As for Swedish, by the way, I have lately picked the common habit to
>>>realize
>>>/rd/, /rl/, /rn/ as [r\`d`], [r\`l`], [r\`n`], which I truth to speak
>>>
>>>
>find
>
>
>>>rather ugly sounding, but like the way it *feels*... ;) )
>>>
>>>
>>Where's that common? In Finland?
>>
>>
>
>At least in Southern Finland, as far as I can hear, and I think also for
>some people on Åland. Of course, I have no opportunities to do any deeper
>dialectical studies.
>The other possibility is, of course, [rd], [rl], [rn], but my (vague) impression
>is that it is somewhat less common among natives - or perhaps it really is
>just Finnish accent.
>
>
>
>>                                               Andreas
>>
>>
>
>- M. Astrand
>"Neeba." - "Teeba?" - "Qeesvefar la:lka." - "Djo:ly."
>"Guess what?" - "What?" - "I've learned how to speak." - "Great."
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Kuukausimaksuton nettiyhteys: http://www.suomi24.fi/liittyma/
>Yli 12000 logoa ja soittoääntä: http://sms.suomi24.fi/
>
>
>

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