----- Original Message -----
From: "JS Bangs" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 4:53 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Two Towers movie


> Isidora Zamora sikyal:
>
> > impression.) Threre seem to be two characterizations of the Rohirrim
> > going on simultaneously and fighting with each other. One is the
> > correct characterization of them as heroic warriors. The other is the
> > impression you get when you see the young boys and the old men arming
> > for the coming battle with fear or despair in their faces; the
> > impression you get when either Legolas or Aragorn characterizes them as
> > farmers. My impression of the Rohirrim was that every man and boy knew
> > how to ride and fight as well as to farm. I don't mind the shots of
> > 12-15 year old boys being armed for battle, because that is probably
> > truthful. In such an emergency, they would have fought to the best of
> > their ability. But I am not convinced that there would have been fear
> > in their faces.
>
> Only a madman *wouldn't* be afraid going into a battle like that! For
> those men and boys to be afraid says nothing about their bravery, only
> their realism. (And in response to Padraic's comments, we should remember
> that the Rohirrim are neither religious fanatics nor orphans in a war
> zone, but people in more ordinary circumstances.) As has been said by
> others, bravery is not lack of fear, but fighting despite fear, and by
> that measure, the Rohirrim prove their bravery by their ability to win the
> battle of Helm's Deep despite the incredible odds.
>
> > When you see Gandalf lying on the mountain peak and sort of travel in
> > through his eyes and see the stars...there are gas clouds, nebulae, and
> > other extraneous materials floating in space. Those shouldn't be there
if
> > this is Arda. Varda made the stars, and they are lights in the sky, not
> > other suns far away. (My husband noticed this.)
>
> Feh. The creation of Arda is an elvish *myth*, which does not necessarily
> align with astronomical observation. Even Tolkein, in his later writings,
> explores the fact that the history described in the Silmarillion might not
> reflect natural history.
>
> > Gandalf comforts Theoden on the death of his son saying that his spirit
was
> > strong in life and will make its way to the halls of his fathers, or
> > something like that. Not in Arda it won't. The souls of Men do not go
to
> > the Halls of Mandos, but pass westward and depart from Arda. What
happens
> > then is anybody's guess as far as I have been able to gather from
anything
> > that I have read. (I noticed this one myself quite recently.)
>
> Again, the elves don't know what happens to men, which means that it
> doesn't get into our official sources. The men, presumably, have their own
> ideas, and Gandalf appears to be simply repeating one of these.
>
> Besides, this is in the book.
>

I forget - do the Maiar know where men go? I seem to remember that they
don't, but if they do, then Gandalf would know..