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CONLANG  September 2003, Week 2

CONLANG September 2003, Week 2

Subject:

Re: numbers systems from conlangs

From:

"H. S. Teoh" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:06:14 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (184 lines)

Well, I thought Ebisedian's numbering system is interesting enough
(*cough*cough*), and there are enough new people on the list, that I
should perhaps post a brief description of it here.

Ebisedian's numbering system is based on the concept of counting by chunks
rather than by individual objects. Each chunk is called a "triad", and
corresponds with a power of 3. A number is specified as a sum of multiples
of chunks.  Because the elementary numbers range from 0 to 9, there are
often multiple ways of saying the same number.

There are two sets of elementary number words in Ebisedian:

1) The quantitative numbers. These numbers denote the actual quantity
being referred to, and hence are inflected for nominal number (nullar,
singular, plural).

2) The qualitative numbers. These numbers denote the mathematical entity
corresponding to the number being referred to; hence, they are usually
used in the singular number. They may be used in the plural, say, when you
count how many 3's are in the number 13331; they may be used in the nullar
to indicate the absence of the digit 4 in 12356, etc..


The elementary numbers in Ebisedian are shown in their quantitative and
qualitative forms in the table below. The square brackets [] show the IPA
pronunciation of these words.

Value   Quantitative            Qualitative
0       y'i     ["?y?i]         ivei'   [?iB&"?i]
1       kei'    [k_h&"?i]       ikei'   [?ik&"?i]
2       3jei'   [?@\dZ&"?i]     ijei'   [?idZ&"?i]
3       3rei'   [?@\r`&"?i]     irei'   [?ir`&"?i]
4       3dei'   [?@\d&"?i]      idei'   [?id&"?i]
5       3Pei'   [?@\p_h&"?i]    iPei'   [?ip_h&"?i]
6       3sei'   [?@\s&"?i]      isei'   [?is&"?i]
7       3Tei'   [?@\t_h"?i]     iTei'   [?it_h&"?i]
8       3Cei'   [?@\tS_h"?i]    iCei'   [?itS_h"?i]
9       3Kee'i  [?@\"k_h&:?i]   iKee'i  [?i"k_h&:?i]


The first few triads and their values are as follows (again, the square
brackets [] give the IPA pronunciation guide):

Value   Triad
3       kekrei' [k&kr&"?i]
9       jekrei' [dZ&kr&"?i]
27      rekrei' [r`&kr&"?i]
81      dekrei' [d&kr&"?i]
243     Pekrei' [p_h&kr&"?i]
729     sekrei' [s&kr&"?i]
... etc.

The triads are combined with the elementary numbers to form multiples. For
example:

kekrekei' = kekre[i'] + kei'
          = 3        * 1
          = 3

3kekrejei' = kekre[i'] + jei'
           = 3        * 2
           = 6

(Note the /3/ plural prefix here. It is absent in _kekrekei'_ because it
means "one chunk" as opposed to "two chunkS".)

3kekrerei' = kekre[i'] + rei'
           = 3         * 3
           = 9

jekrekei'  = jekre[i'] + kei'
           = 9         * 1
           = 9

Notice that _3kekrerei'_ has the same numerical value as _jekrekei'_.
However, one is a plural noun (it means 3 groups of 3), whereas the other
is a singular noun (meaning 1 group of 9).

Note that the suffix -kei' can usually be dropped, so that _kekrei'_ is
the same as _kekrekei'_. This is naturally useful for pronouncing
otherwise cumbersome and confusing number words.

Numbers can also be added using the additive infix /3/. For example:

3je3kekrei' = je[i'] + -3- + kekrei'
            = 2         +    3
            = 5

3ke3jekrei' = ke[i'] + -3- + jekrei'
            = 1         +    9
            = 10

3de3kekrejei' = de[i'] + -3- + kekre[i'] + jei'
              = 4         +    3         * 2
              = 4 + 6
              = 10

3Te3kekrei' = Te[i'] + -3- + kekrei'
            = 7         +    3
            = 10

Notice that we have 3 different ways of saying ten here. It could be a
group of 9 plus one (3ke3jekrei'), or two groups of 3 plus four
(3de3kekrejei'), or a group of 3 with 7 extra members (3Te3kekrei').

Also note that our first example, _3je3kekrei'_, is numerically identical
to _3Pei'_, "five".

Now, this number system may seem rather cumbersome and difficult to deal
with; but it is important to understand that the Ebisedi usually deal with
*approximate* numbers rather than precise numbers. The additive numbers
are there for the mathematicians and accountants who deal with exact
figures; but the common layperson use the triads in an approximate sense.
That is to say, other than the elementary numbers (0-9) which are always
precise, the triads are *approximate* numbers. It is just like how we say
"two dozen" in English, which may mean precisely 24, or it may be anywhere
from 22 to 26 or thereabouts.

So, although the correct way of saying ten is one of the above forms (plus
a few others, for those mathematicians among you), most lay people would
say _3kekredei'_, i.e., "two bunches" or "two hands", as the number of
fingers they have. Or if they are dividing ten eggs between three people,
they'd say _3kekrerei'_. Or even _3kekredei'_ if they're dividing ten
between 4 people. If you ask them how many fingers and toes they have in
total, they might say _3kekredei'_ (note the difference with the previous
instance, which means 10 rather than 20) or _3jekrejei'_ (if they consider
hands and feet by pairs). You might point out that there's a big
discrepancy between the "true" value of _3kekredei'_, which is 12, and
_3jekrejei'_, which is 18. But that is precisely the point: the triads are
*approximate* values, not exact values, except in a mathematical context.

In a similar vein, when reading an Ebisedian passage that talks about
_3mangosekrei'_, (_mang[i']_ ("horse") + _sekrei'_), it might be tempting
to translate it into English as "729 horses". However, a better
translation might be "about 700 horses", since _sekrei'_ is likely an
approximation, unless the context indicates that we're dealing with
precise numbers.

This imprecision may appear to be rather awkward; but it is usually best
to think of the triads as the equivalent of the English "bunch", "dozen",
"score", etc.. You keep a bunch (kekrei') of dogs in your backyard; the
hen lays a dozen (jekrei') eggs; there are several (rekrei') houses on
your street; there are numerous (dekrei') houses on the block; the number
of cars owned by people on the block is roughly 250 (Pekrei'); a millipede
supposedly has 1000 (sekrei') legs;[1] etc..

[1] In this case, Ebisedian is more accurate than English, as millipedes
really only have around 600-700 legs at most, not the 1000 as is commonly
believed; _sekrei'_ is around 700.

As a closing word, the Ebisedi do not, contrary to popular belief, have
strange numbers of fingers and toes. When they say they have _kekrejei'_
fingers, it does NOT mean they only have 3 fingers on a hand. They are
just saying they have two "handfuls" (_kekrei'_) of fingers. Only the
mathematicians and accountants among them bother to say that they have
precisely (3de3kekrejei') fingers. Or, as a high-school Bisedi would say,
_3tagokeojekrei'_.[2]

[2] Why high-school? 'cos that's when they learn to count using only the
first 3 elementary numbers, like this:
        y'i             0
        kei'            1
        3jei'           2
        kekrei'         3
        keokekrei'      4
        jeokekrei'      5
        kekrejei'       6
        keokekrejei'    7
        jeokekrejei'    8
        jekrei'         9
        keojekrei'      10
        ...

And why only high-school? 'cos keojekrei' literally means "1 plus 3
bunches", which is a rather odd answer for "how many fingers do you have",
since it implies that you have 3 hands (with 3 fingers on each) plus
another loose finger elsewhere.


T

--
I'm still trying to find a pun for "punishment"...

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December 2005, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 5
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March 2003, Week 5
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March 2003, Week 3
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March 2003, Week 1
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January 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
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December 2002, Week 1
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November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
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September 2002, Week 3
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September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
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July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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November 2001, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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