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AUXLANG  January 2004, Week 5

AUXLANG January 2004, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Personal Response to "The Main Advantages of Ido"

From:

Rob Haden <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:24:10 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (105 lines)

OK, I logged into the nearby computer lab since I have a class soon.
Here's some more of my response:

"COUNTRY NAMES and other proper names don't need to end in -o, and in Ido
they are more internationally recognisable. For example: Afrika, Amerika,
Australia, Azia, Britania, Europa, Germania, Haiti, India, Kanada, Kuba,
Peru, Portugal, Rusia. The unfortunate nature of the Esperanto country
names has been acknowledged (6)."

I'm abstentious about this, really.

"ROOTS. In contrast to completely invented languages Esperanto uses word-
roots taken generally from the great European languages, so that the words
are (for many peoples) recognisable and more easily learnt. Nevertheless,
this good principle was applied incompletely and hazardously. Compare for
example:"

Different European languages have different words for different things.
Look at how many synonyms English has, due to its massive borrowing from
other languages.  Furthermore, I don't think a vocabulary derived from only
European languages is appealing to the masses of the rest of the world.  If
we want equality of learning ability, then I suggest making roots more or
less apriorially, so then it is just as hard for Europeans to learn as
everyone else :P

"INFINITIVES in Ido have the ending -ar which is better known than -i
because it comes from Spanish, Italian, Catalan and Portuguese."

On the global level, -ar is as not well known as -i.

"PLURALS have the ending -i, known in Slavic languages and in Romanian and
Italian. Both endings (-ar and -i) in Ido are already known to many
millions of people."

Millions of people in Europe, but that's about it.  I have strong
reservations about deriving a language's grammar and/or vocabulary mainly
from Romance (let alone European) sources.  However, affixes for such
things as infinitives and plurals should be as simple as possible.  The use
of -i for plurals *is* an exercise in simplicity.

"WORDS FOR PEOPLE AND ANIMALS in Ido are nearly all non-specific as regards
gender (as are many words in English and Russian). When necessary, one adds
a suffix to indicate sex. The major advantage is that one does not have to
give the impression that a person or animal is masculine when one in fact
does not know, or when it can or may be either male or female."

I agree with this.

"Ido also has a very useful extra pronoun, lu, which does not indicate sex
and so avoids the necessity to say repeatedly "he or she" or give false
information by saying for example only "he" in a situation where it could
also be 'she'."

Many languages don't even distinguish gender in their pronouns (Mandarin
and Finnish, for example).  Colloquial English has begun to use the 3rd
plural pronoun "they" for gender-neutrality in the singular.

"THE PREFIX MAL- is used too much in Esperanto, so that many frequently
used words are too long (and too repetetive). The prefix "mal-" is also
unfortunate because its international meaning is "bad" (for
example, "malfermas" might mean "shuts badly"). Ido has the more
international prefix des- (from French, Spanish, Portuguese, etc.), as in
the words desaprobas, desagreabla, desavantajo. There are also alternatives
for the more frequently used antonyms:"

I agree with this.  Basic opposites, such as "light" vs. "dark," "pretty"
vs. "ugly," and of course "good" vs. "bad" are more easily expressed in
terms of different words.

"DERIVATION of words in Esperanto may be simple but in fact it is idiomatic
and unclear. For example, "to brush" is brosi using a brush which is broso,
but "to shoot" is pafi using a gun, pafilo; "to pilot" is piloti
and "pilot" is piloto, but "to interpret" is interpreti with "interpreter"
being interpretisto; a person who is seeing is vidanto, but a person who is
blind is blindulo."

This is certainly a problem, in my opinion.  I would suggest having two
basic deverbal affixes: one to represent the activity of the verb (nomen
activitatis), and another to express the result or the thing most commonly
the object of the verb (nomen actionis).  Of course, an agentive suffix
(nomina agentis) et al. are also necessary.

"WITH THE INFINITIVE in Ido one more logically uses adjectives, not
adverbs, because the infinitive is a verb-form with the character of a noun
(8). Use of adverbs here is a Slavic idiom, or misunderstanding (9). For
the same reason, one can in Ido freely and without hesitation use a
preposition before an infinitive; for example sen vidar, ante parolar."

I agree with this.

I've saved the "best" for last:

"The general public, through insufficient knowledge, has a prejudice
against a constructed international language."

This presumes that the general public is ignorant, and if only the would
reach as high a stage of enlightenment as the interlinguists, they would
naturally see the need for only one language!  Please.  Why should people
adopt another language when their native tongue works fine for them?  I'm
not sure if everone on Earth will *ever* learn the same language as their
native tongue.  While the world has gotten smaller, it is still a very big
place, and there is a limit to the metaphorical shrinkage.

- Rob

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