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CONLANG  February 2004, Week 1

CONLANG February 2004, Week 1

Subject:

Re: More ASCII IPA suggestions

From:

Benct Philip Jonsson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:33:14 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (220 lines)

>From: Andreas Johansson <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject:      More ASCII IPA suggestions ...

Sorry for late response.  That ol' Real Life...

>No-one expressed any interest in my ideas for a better ASCII
>IPA system, but seeing the attention Adrian's scheme is
>drawing, I thought I might just as well add this to the mix
>anyway. So ...
>
>This scheme is, as shall be obvious, based on X-SAMPA/CXS,
>with some bugfixes (or fixes of things that bug me, at
>least) and one major change.
>
>As in X-SAMPA, all lowercase Roman letter stays.

Same in my unfinished scheme, except that I used _q_
for the velar nasal.  The idea was to use the captals
KGQX for uvular sounds.  I found no good solution for
the voiced fricatives...

>The big
>change is that anything that is represented in the IPA by a
>superscript is represented by ^ plus the sign in question;
>thus ^h for aspiration, ^j for palatalization and so on.
>When the superscripted character isn't ASCIIically
>available, whatever is used for the character in its
>independent IPA use is used instead; eg ^G for velarization.

In my unfinished proposals I introduced a
distinction between _ and ^ for indicating diacritics.
For example _l indicated 'lateral' while ^l indicated
'lateral*iz*ed', _n was 'nasal' ^n was 'nasalized' etc.


>I'm sure this scheme perserves a variety of aspects of CXS
>others find obnoxious.  Tell me, and we can hopefully word
>out an improvement!

I absolutely think that the \ and ` diacritics should
*precede* the character they modify.  In the case of the
backslash this is the way it is normally used in
programming languages, and in the case of ` one may
(at least on a Swedish keyboard, as I'm sure you know)
inadvertently type e.g. {tà} when {t`a} is intended,
while {`ta} is fool-proof in this regard.

BTW I think that the frequent use of \ should be
avoided, since it leads to ugly character sequences
in phonemic transcriptions: /i\/ or /\i/ are equally
bad in this respect!  I have no immediate suggestion
for an alternative diacritic, however. Perhaps * ?

>The below mostly reproduces the IPA, but
>I'm perfectly open to add more non-IPA distinctions. Anyway,
>this what I have ATM:

[snip]

The only thing that really worries me is how the r`/4` distinction is to be
represented in non-ASCII! :)
Perhaps the olden click-symbol 'streched c' (U+0297)
might be locally revived for [4`]!

BTW there should of course be a retroflex lateral flap
symbol [l\`] too!


>Clicks       p!             T!    t!     S!
>
>
>I don't know if any further back clicks are possible, but if
>you can do a palatal click, [c!] suggests itself, etc.

There indeed is a palatal click.


>I do not ATM have any better idea than X-SAMPA's _< and _>
>for implosives and ejectives - I'm open for suggestions.

I suggest _! or ^! for implosives and _? or ^? for ejectives.


>Other consonant symbols:
>
>W    voiceless labial-velar fricative.
>w    voiced labial-velar approximant.
>H    voiced labial-palatal approximant.
>H\   voiceless epiglottal fricative (someone tell me what this is!)
><\   voiced epiglottal fricative
>>\   epiglottal plosive (I want to change these two too - suggestions?)

I used Q\ and P\ as ugly hack alternatives in my CXStoHTML perl script,
since it is my absolute opinion that < and > should be avoided in something
that is to be put inside an HTML document.

>s\   voiceless alveopalatal fricative
>z\   voiced alveopalatal fricative
>s\!  palatoalveolar click
>l\   alveolar lateral flap
>x\   simultaneous S and x
>5    velarized alveolar lateral approximant
>
>Affricates and double articulations may optionally be
>inclosed in { } to disambiguate.

An old suggestion of mine.  I used the same in my proposal

>Alternatively, affricate or
>double articulation may be assumed, and clusters separated
>by '-'. Note that normal parentesis and square brackets
>retain their IPA functions!
>
>Vowels:
>
>|  i  y        i\ u\    M  u
>|      I  Y    I\ U\     U
>|    e  2      @\ 8     7  o
>|                @
>|      E  9    3  3\    V  O
>|       &        6
>|        a  &\          A  Q

What about [8\] for [2^w]?


>Superagementals:
>
>'    Primary stress
>,    Secondary stress
>:    Long
>;    Half-long
>;\   Extra short
>.    Syllable break
>|    Minor (foot) group
>||   Major (intonation) group
>
>For tone, I don't have any improvements on CXS to suggest
>ATM. However, if '<' and '>' are freed up, I'm thinking they
>could be used to enclose tonal info. Eg, [ma<TMH>] would be
>the syllable "ma" with an obnoxious extra high-mid-high
>contour tone on. Since ! and ^ have been hijacked, it would
>also allow us to use <!> and <^> for downstep and upstep.

Good Idea.  May I also suggest the not unprecedented use of numbers 1-5 for
tone annotation on the principle:

<5>     extra high
<4>     high
<3>     mid
<2>     low
<1>     extra low

If you will it is a way of transcribing Chao-style tone letters.
It also allows for annotation of contour tones like this:

<15>    rising
<51>    falling
<45>    high rising
<12>    low rising
<454>   rising-falling

Additionally one may use # to indicate numbered tones, like
/ma#1 ma#2 ma#3 ma#4/ for Mandarin, or /anden#1  anden#2/ for Swedish.

>Diacritics:
>
>_0   voiceless (zero)
>_v   voiced
>^h   aspirated
>_o   more rounded (using lowercase lessens risk for confusion with _0)
>_c   less rounded
>_+   advanced
>_-   retracted
>¨    centralized (did not seem to be any reason not get rid of the underline)

NB ¨ is not a valid ASCII character.  I take it you mean ".

>*    mid-centralized
>=    syllabic
>=    non-syllabic (can't think of any symbol that need distinct syllabic and
>non-syllabic diacritics!)
>`    rhoticity
>_¨   breathy voiced

Same comment as per centralized above.
May I suggest _h as an alternative?


[snip]

>_`   no audible release (similarish to IPA diacritic, and I hate brackets used
>for non-brackety purposes)

Agreeissimo!



>The ^X = superscript X convention may also be used for
>writing explicitly falling or raising diphthongs: [a^i],
>[^uo].

NB that {u^o} might be ambiguous with your 'lowered'
diacritic.  E.g. German _au_ is phonetically {ao}.

[snip]

>Bring along the feedback - flak or praise, I'm ready!
>
>                                                      Andreas


/BP 8^)
--
   B.Philip Jonsson mailto:[log in to unmask] (delete X)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Truth, Sir, is a cow which will give [skeptics] no more milk,
and so they are gone to milk the bull."
                                     -- Sam. Johnson (no rel. ;)

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August 2002, Week 1
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July 2002, Week 1
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