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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  March 2004, Week 3

CONLANG March 2004, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Auxlangs and Orcs' Langs

From:

J Y S Czhang <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 17 Mar 2004 05:03:39 EST

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (85 lines)

In a message dated 2004:03:16 10:11:15 PM, [log in to unmask]
writes:

>J Y S Czhang wrote at 2004-03-16 16:32:39 (EST)
> > In a message dated 2004:03:16 08:24:01 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> >
> > >I seem to remember somewhere in that essay he likens Esperanto to
> > >a creation of food hygienists rather than cooks, which given his
> > >view of such things tends to demonstrate his dislike of it (sorry,
> > >I don't have the quote to hand)
> > >
> > >Mike
> > >
> > >> Unlikely, I'd say.  JRRT liked Esperanto, thought the idea of an
> > >> IAL a good one (in "English and Welsh" he mentions as one of the
> > >> external virtues of Welsh the fact that it is not "in
> > >> competition for the ruinous honor" of being a global lingua
> > >> franca), and particularly praised E-o over its competition as
> > >> being "the work of one man, and not a philologist" (an
> > >> artlangish auxlang, in fact).
> >
> >     I think you both are right. IIRC Tolkien was pretty favourable
> > to E-o in his younger days while his colleagues were gaga over
> > Ogden's Basic English, but as he got older his view changed and
> > became highly critical.
> >     What I am curious about is did Tolkien know of Otto Jesperson
> > (and Novial) and vice-versa...
> >
>
>In a 1932 letter(?) to _The British Esperantist_ reproduced here:
>http://donh.best.vwh.net/Languages/tolkien1.html
>
>Tolkien writes that "N**" is "ingenious, and easier than Esperanto,
>but hideous -- "factory product" is written all over it, or rather,
>"made of spare parts" -- and it has no gleam of the individuality,
>coherence and beauty, which appear in the great natural idioms, and
>which do appear to a considerable degree (probably as high a degree as
>is possible in an artificial idiom) in Esperanto -- a proof of the
>genius of the original author..."
>
>"N**" is presumed to be Novial by an editor (at what point the
>editorial comments were made is not clear from that page, and I have
>no further information).

    I guess Tolkien was not partial to pidgins and creoles.
    Bloody damn. Oh well...
    Mathematician and auxlanger* Lancelot Hogben was not so prejudiced in
this matter as Tolkien, Mario Pei ** and other such linguists - academic and
populist (and other assorted company).

    * Interglossa, direct pre-cursor to Glosa

    ** Pei refers to pidgins and creoles as baby languages and broken
languages & implies that they are unsuitable for civilized communication in a modern
world (otherwise Pei is quite likeable as sort of a Mr. Rogers of linguistics
unlike prescriptivists like Safire who I can't stand)

    BTW it seems I have begun a collection of this old early-to-mid 20th
Century language authors like Hogben, Pei, Berlitz, etc. Great resources for
linguamangling and/or creating a pseudo-mid-century "feeling"/_frisson_(_mise en
scene_/_Zeitgeist_ ...  conlang/auxlang a la Indiana Jones or Sam Spade, anybody?


--- *DiDJiBuNgA!!* Hang Binary,baby...---

Hanuman "Stitch" Zhang, ManglaLanger (mangle + manga + lang)
<A HREF="http://www.boheme-magazine.net">=> boheme-magazine.net</A>

     Language[s] change[s]: vowels shift, phonologies crash-&-burn, grammars
leak, morpho-syntactics implode, lexico-semantics mutate, lexicons explode,
orthographies reform, typographies blip-&-beep, slang flashes, stylistics
warp... linguistic (R)evolutions mark each-&-every quantum leap...
...languages are "naturally evolved wild systems... So language does not
impose order on a chaotic universe, but reflects its own wildness back." - Gary
Snyder

"Some Languages Are Crushed to Powder but Rise Again as New Ones" -
a chapter on pidgins & creoles, John McWhorter,
_The Power of Babel: A Natural History of Language_

=  gw'araa legooset caacaa !
     reez'arvaa. saalvaa. reecue. scoopaa-goomee en reezijcloo ! =
[Fight Linguistic Waste!
    Save, Salvage, Recover, Scavenge and Recycle!]

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