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AUXLANG  August 2004, Week 4

AUXLANG August 2004, Week 4

Subject:

Interlingua at first site - wasRe: Reasons for learning IALs

From:

Thomas Alexander <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:25:12 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (170 lines)

My experience leads me to believe that Interlingua is
more difficult to understand at first sight than is
usually claimed by interlinguans - including Kjell.

I claim this as an active speaker of Interlingua.
Primarily, however, I consider myself an Esperantist,
so feel free to judge my bias with full disclosure.

I believe it was je 07.15 atm 2004.08.10 that
Bruce GILSON skribis:

> > Contrast the situation regarding Interlingua and
> > Spanish. Many people have noted that Interlingua
> > enables them to write material that will be
> > directly legible by Spanish [...] speakers, but
> > it requires _much_less_ effort to learn
> > Interlingua than to learn Spanish.

If the goal be to can communicate with Spanish
speakers, for what reason not to learn Spanish
poorly?  Spanish bees as easy to learn as Interlingua
if a person focus on learning what a person need
to communicate and not to focus on being perfect.

Don Harlow wrote:
> When you are [...] reading about how to mount a
> whiteboard on a wall, you will immediately note that
> the key words in English, French and Spanish bear no
> relationship whatsoever to each other.

I don't think this makes the point you are trying to
make.  The question is not whether the speaker of a
national language uses a word similar to the
Interlingua word, but rather whether they would
understand the Interlingua word in context.  Even
though French and English speakers use different
words for a certainl liquid, a waiter would likely
understand a request for "aqua" to drink.

Your example could show, however, that an Interlinguan
who only knew the words "aqua" and "eau" might not
understand the waiter's reply.

In the same thread, Bruce again replied to Don:

> I must accept your testimony as to your wife's
> inability to understand Interlingua. However, this
> seems not to be general.

I've got to think that there is some kind of filtering
going on here.  That is, as limited beings we're only
seeing part of the word.  Esperantists are at times
accused of assuming that Esperanto is pleasing to
everybody because they spend all their time with
Esperantists - people who have stuck with Esperanto
mostly because they find it pleasing.  Surely some
similar filtering goes on when it comes to reading
Interlingua at first sight.

This is not a new argument, but there is also surely
an element of the emperor's new clothes.  I always
feel a bit of hesitation myself before coming out and
admitting that I had trouble reading Interlingua at
first sight.  Quite often I receive very polite
replies which boil down to accusations that perhaps I
am just different and maybe even not so intelligent.
Certainly it's more fun to look at a text and shout
out the words that you recognise than to shout out
those you do not.

> There used to be an Interlingua advocate who posted
> on this list, whose first name I think was Stanley,
> but whose last name I forget, who said that he has
> corresponded with a number of native speakers of
> Spanish and Portuguese, using Interlingua, and
> achieved a mutual comprehension level that was
> fairly high.

This same Stanley also claims not to ever have studied
Spanish, even though he clearly has spent a lot of
time reading Spanish-Spanish dictionaries.

> And of course, while you [Don] say (and I [Bruce]
> have no reason to doubt you) that you could not
> read Interlingua before you learned Esperanto, my
> experience was quite different.

I belive it was in an article (in Interlingua) called
something like "Interlingua and the Emperor's New
Clothes" in which a well known Interlingua advocate
says that among the few people who truly understand
Interlingua at first sight are people who have studied
Latin.  Three years of even high school Latin puts you
squarely in that category.

I'll go Don one better and admit that I had trouble
understanding Interlingua even AFTER learning
Esperanto.  It wasn't till I'd started a study of
Latin and Italian that things began to fall into place
as far as understandig Interlingua.  At that point,
I made up about 100 flash cards to learn some of the
more common Interlingua words which I hadn't yet
learned well.  That's when I really felt comfortable
reading texts in Interlingua... and much to my
surprise, I found that I could also write something
that in some way resembled Interlingua enough so that
I could converse in the Internet with interlinguans.

Back, I believe, to quoting Don:
> Ultimately, the things I've seen over the years
> suggest that, though Interlingua's "superiority"
> in this regard (immediate comprehensibility for
> a selected linguistic subset of humanity) contains
> perhaps more than a mere  grain of truth, it is
> severely exaggerated for people outside certain
> venues (like Auxlang). You can, in fact, do as
> well (or as poorly) with Esperanto if you stick
> to roots.

... and I've seen this done.  I've read claims from
Interlinguans about how they were able to get along
in this country or that country ... and all that was
necessary is to learn a few local words for foods...
yet I've seen an Esperantist order in a restaurant
*in Esperanto* doing just this.  Interlingua has no
corner on this market.  In a pinch, perhaps even
grunting and mumbling can communicate well as long as
a few clearly pronounced "local words" come out.

Mmmm rrr uggg aaaah beer grrr aaa eeee ffff bread
grrr mmm waga waga salad please.

In this thread, Kjell writes:

> I have talkte in interlingua to a spanish speaker
> and we could understand each other quite well.

But you also said recently (perhaps in Interlng) that
you have been doing this thing for longer than you
have known about Interlingua.  That is, you have long
had the habit of taking what you know, combining it,
and then making an attempt at talking to people.  You
also say that you taylor your usage to match the
person you're talking to -- and might mix some Spanish
in with your interlingua.

Anyway, the point is that you and I (and Bruce and Don
and others on this list) are not typical.  Even before
I really started learning foreign languages, I found
that I could make myself understood in English with
foreign visitors with weak English.  The key was to
pronounce clearly, and to rephrase things that were
not understood.  This sounds very simple, but I know
some people who find this sort of thing difficult.
To them, rephrasing means to say it again with the
same words but a bit louder.

=====
Amike salutas,
Thomas/Tomaso ALEXANDER.
www.NightinGael.Net
---Anything below this line is not from Thomas ---



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