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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  October 2004, Week 2

CONLANG October 2004, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Announcement: New auxlang "Choton"

From:

Philip Newton <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Philip Newton <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:39:25 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (56 lines)

On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 20:36:00 +0200, Henrik Theiling <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> But I speak some variant of NHG (def. a),
> e.g. I lack some phonemic distinctions (seldom) and some phonetic
> distinctions (often) of NHG involving diphthongs in vocalic /r/ and
> there is no initial /pf/ affricate for me.  E.g. I have:
>
>   |Pfad|  /fa:d/ [fa:t]
>   |fad|   /fa:d/ [fa:t]
>   |Fahrt| /fart/ [fa:t]

Hm. I think I have the same - "Die [fa:t] dorthin" and "Der [fa:t]
dorthin" sound the same to me.

And given that "Das [fE6t] heißt [fE6t], weil man darauf [fE6t]", /pf/
= [f] is not that uncommon around here (northern Germany).



On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 23:11:27 +0200, Henrik Theiling <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Hi
> !
> Andreas Johansson <[log in to unmask]> writes:
> > I wrote:
> > >   |Pfad|  /pfa:d/ [pfa:t]
> >...
> > Reminds me; is it really [pf]? Since it's usually described as an affricate, I
> > had assumed it's really [pp\] - which I find easier to pronounce, and in fact
> > is what I use when speaking German - but _every_ phonetic transcription I've
> > seen seems to write [pf].
>
> Ah!  Yes, it's [pf].  I just tried [pp\] and it is not perfectly
> right.

I agree.

> When I pronounce it, there is no need to adjust the position of the
> jaw to switch from bilabial to labiodental.  My upper teeth already
> touch the lower lip while the plosive is closed by the upper lip.
> When the plosive part opens, there is no need to adjust anything: the
> [f] is already perfectly in position for the fricative part.

And with this as well, though I've never given any thought to it before today :)

> (This all describes my own pronunciation.  I used a different word,
> namely |hüpfen| to check all this, since my pronunciation of initial
> /pf/ would be artificial for me and not native since my dialect
> (def. a) does not have initial /pf/, but only medial.)

Interesting. I have initial [pf] in careful speech: [pfE6t] does not
sound artificial to me, merely rather formal.

Cheers,
--
Philip Newton <[log in to unmask]>
Watch the Reply-To!

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