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CONLANG  October 2004, Week 3

CONLANG October 2004, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Nindic Nominal Morphology

From:

Elliott Lash <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:37:25 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (167 lines)

--- "H. S. Teoh" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> > The definitive form has three means of formation:
> >
> > 1) ?ad    				     hyger ?rain? > hygrad ?the
> rain?
> >  (with syncope sometimes, especially before
> "r/l/n")
> [...]
>
> Hmm, what encoding are you using? I see a lot of ?'s
> in your message,
> which I'm sure are intended to be something else.

No idea about my encoding, just know that the question
marks were quotes and dashes.

1) _ad_ is a suffix, hence it was preceded by a dash
   _rain_ was surrounded by quotes, similarly for _the
   rain_

> [...]
> > The use of the definite form is mostly to mean
> "the"
> > as in English. Some restrictions apply, however.
> It's
> > used after a certain class of prepositions, but
> not
> > another class of prepositions (so called
> > s-prepositions, since they end in "s", usually).
> It's
> > used before possessive pronouns, but not if the
> > possessive pronoun begins with a consonant. With
> > possessive pronouns, it is left untranslated.
>
> Reminds me of Classical Greek, which uses articles
> with names (e.g.,
> literally "the Socrates").

I believe in Nindic names never have the article.

   Elaer, Eroel, Senolo etc.

> > Demonstratives can come before or after the noun,
> > usually after in speech. The following are the
> major
> > demonstrative
> >
> > eir(?d) ?that over there, yonder?
> > mer(ed) ?that?
> > m?r(ed)  ?this?
>
> Nice. I haven't given Tatari Faran "real"
> demonstratives yet;
> currently, for nouns referring to people, the 3rd
> person pronouns can
> be used as demonstratives. E.g.:
>
> 	san tara'	- "That person" (lit., "he person")
> 	san diin	- "Those people" (lit. "them people")
> 	kiran tara'	- "That young man" (lit. "he young
> man")
> 	kiran diin	- "Those young men" ("them young men")
>
> The 2nd person pronouns are similarly used, with a
> vocative meaning:
> 	san tse		- "You man", "you person"
> 	san huna	- "You(pl) people"
> 	diru huna	- "You girls"
> 	bata' tse	- "You, chief"

This is kind of like Older stages of Nindic and
Silindion, vaguelly.

The word "ta" is found in both, meaning "he, it, that
one".

Also, the Old Nindic infixed pronoun "_th_", is from
*_tta (with a geminate form of the above), hence, it
became used as "that one that i'm talking to..and so
forth".

> > That's basically it for nominal morphology. I hope
> you
> > enjoyed.
> [...]
>
> Yep, it was fascinating. Tatari Faran is way boring
> compared to
> Nindic. Plurals are formed by prefixing _he-_:
> 	san	- person
> 	hesan	- people

I like prefixes as well...I think there is one Nindic
noun...or maybe South Nindic noun that forms a plural
irregularly like this...

Ah yes...the word "cow", is very crazy in Nindic
Languages.

North Nindic: "gweg" > "gwega" "cows"
              "gweg" > "buweg"  "group of cows, herd"
              "boach" > "boan" "heads of cattle"

South Nindic:  feach "cow" > fich "cows"
               feach "cow" > bomhagh "group of cows"

Both "buweg" and "bomhagh" are from *buma-weka in
Common Nindic. This is the irregular prefixed
collective thingy.


> Even so, the plural is rarely used; _san_ by itself
> could mean either
> singular or plural. When a pronoun is present, the
> plural prefix is
> unnecessary (e.g. _san diin_: "those people", the
> plural is already
> conveyed by the pronoun, making _hesan diin_
> redundant). The plural is
> usually used only when you wish to emphasize the
> plurality of the
> noun.

I've always liked this kind of system, but I dont
think it fits in with my Nindic/Silindion stuff, since
they're mostly very European...  I think that in
Silindion at least, numbers usually take singular
nouns...so this is somewhat similar.

>
> There are some mutations outside of inflections
> proper. For example,
> when the originative case markers (_na_, _nei_,
> _no_) follow a noun
> whose last syllable is almost identical to the
> marker, a dissimilation
> process occurs:
> 	suna + nei -> sunan dei
> 	huna + na -> hunan da
> 	kuana + nei -> kuanan dei

This feature I love. It reminds me somehow of
Japanese... hmm.. I guess because the copula "da" and
the adjective verb formant "na" seem to be somehow
related in that language. Very cool.  I like how the
"n" of the case marker sticks itself on to the final
vowel and then becomes "nd" or however it works.


> Other mutations include the fusion of feminine case
> particle with the
> interrogative _ta_:
> 	nei + ta -> nita
> 	sei + ta -> sita
> 	kei + ta -> kita

And this too, is cool. I think you underestimate the
interestingness of such a system.

 Elliott

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