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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  November 2004, Week 2

CONLANG November 2004, Week 2

Subject:

Re: English l and Spanish ll

From:

Tristan Mc Leay <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:06:46 +1100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (63 lines)

Adam Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious wrote:

>Is the English l represented as SAMPA IPA /l`/ or /l/ (since I've noticed the
>difference between most language's l's and English's l's)
>
>
The English l is always /l/. However, though that answers the question
you asked, it doesn't answer the question you wanted to ask. (see below
for why)

The English /l/ varies between what is called a 'clear l', [l] (in this
case, an alveolar lateral approximate) and what is called a 'dark l' [5]
(a velarised alveolar lateral approximate). Most descriptions say that
clear l is used before vowels and a dark l before consonants, but I
imagine the exact use varies from region to region. Not all dialects use
both though; some always have a clear l, some might always have a dark
l. Those that always have a clear l might have it because they pronounce
all standard /l/ as a clear l regardless of the circumstances, or
because they dark l has been so vocalised that it is now pronounced as a
vowel or part of a diphthong. I suppose it's entirely possible that some
people pronounce the velarised lateral as a velar lateral...

In addition, some dialects will have a palatal or palatised l ([L] or
[l_j], resp.) in words where there is an /l/ followed by a /j/ (or in
some other palatal environment). Some people will further modify *that*
to just a [j], hence one often hears the name of my country pronounced
'Austraya', must to the disappointment of some prescriptivists. (I've
been known to say frex 'William' as [wIj@m] and have heard 'aluminium'
as [&j@mIn_j@m].)

You seem to be confusing phonemic and phonetic notations. Phonemic
notations are surrounded by slashes and represent the pronounciation at
only a high level. Details that are irrelevant to meaning and can be
determined through context aren't included (for instance, (Australian)
English 'stop' and 'top' as /stOp/ and /tOp/, or 'lid' and 'real' and
'valuable' as /lId/ and /rI:l/ /v&lj@b@l/). Seeing as there's only one
lateral sound in English relevant at this level, it's denoted /l/.

Phonetic notations are surrounded by square brackets and represent
pronunciations at a level lower than this. Details that are irrelevant
to meaning and can be determined through context _may be_ included,
though you don't need to include all of them; it depends on what the
focus is and how detailed you want to get (for instance, (Au) English
'stop' and 'top' as [stOp] and [t_hOp], or 'lid'~'real~'value' as [lId],
[r\I:5=], [v&L@b@5]). Seeing as the exact pronunciation of the English
lateral sound varies at this level, it can be denoted in a number of ways.

Your question, then, was 'Is the English l [l] or [l`] ...?'.

>Also, is the Spanish ll (in the accents where it sounds similar to /dZ/) /z*/
>or /L/?
>

In at least some it actually is [dZ)]. I'm not sure what you mean by
'/z*/', the star isn't a Sampa, X-Sampa or CXS modifier character. You
may be thinking in a different ASCII IPA scheme. This list generally
uses CXS and you can find my chart of it at
<http://cassowary.free.fr/Linguistics/cxschart.png>.

HTH,
--
Tristan.

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