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CONLANG  December 2004, Week 1

CONLANG December 2004, Week 1

Subject:

Re: USAGE: Vowel recordings

From:

Tristan Mc Leay <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:37:30 +1100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (124 lines)

Adrian Morgan (aka Flesh-eating Dragon) wrote:

> Tristan McLeay wrote:
>
>> In that context for me [@] (no matter its origin) is forbidden, and I'd
>> say [Ia)]; using a [@] makes it sound like you're beginning to say /Ie)/
>> to me and I'm forever suprised you never actually make it to the [e],
>
> I am not aware of any dialect of Australian English with a /Ie/
> diphthong!


I'm not aware of any fullstop, but that's what [I@] sounds like it's
trying to become to me in that context! [@] is totally and utterly,
irrevocably and with no course for appeal banned from that position; /@/
there is pronounced [a] (or perhaps, /@/ there is pronounced the same
way /a/ is pronounced normally). (This is not something new---people who
say [el] for the name of the letter L* don't have [@] here, in
Melbourne---and it has a number of odd effects elsewhere, like seeing as
[a] is a short non-schwa vowel, there are times it might need to get
more stress than it usually does, and this applies just as much when
it's /@/ as when it's /a/.)

* In Melbourne amongst younger people, under 30ish, /el/ is pronounced
[&l], so 'salary' and 'celery' are homophones. Usually though earlier
/el/ and /&l/ are still distinct because /&/+[5]->[&:5], but /e/+/l/ ->
[&l]~[&5].

>> Your 'steam' seems to be a monophthong, or at least not diphthongal
>> enough, but I'm not sure if I put that down to recital mode or Adelaide.
>
> I am not aware of any dialect of Australian English in which 'steam'
> has a diphthong! It's always /sti:m/ as far as I know.


/sti:m/, perhaps, though my sometimes inability to distinguish between
[i] and [I] without a context suggests otherwise, but certainly not
[sti:m] for the most part. And this isn't perculiar to Australian
English either, it's kin in England often have a diphthong. It's
something like [Ii] or [@i], with the second element being dominant.

>> Also, I dunno about you, but I have a noticeably phonetically
>> different pronunciation of the vowel in 'stone' and 'pole' and I
>> think there's a
>
>
> Yes. It's a regular modification before [5]. What's interesting is
> that for some speakers the same modification occurs in words where the
> /l/ constitutes a syllable boundary such as "cola", "holy", "polio",
> etc, whereas for other speakers it doesn't. I'm in the second
> category, i.e. "holy" is like "goatee" and not like "oldie". I think
> it's because for me /l/ in that position does not become [5] (because
> it is at the beginning of the second syllable, not the end of the
> first) whereas for many other speakers it does.


I think of 'holy' etc. with the 'goatee' vowel being a thing of posh
old-fashioned British women (or perhaps posh old-fashioned Australian
women pretending to be British). I didn't realise it was current amongst
any dialects... Very definitely the 'oldie' vowel for me. On a related
note, do you distinguish between 'poll' and 'pole' and similar?

>> I'd be interested to hear a bunch of /U@/ words, like 'pure',
>> 'purest',  'tour', 'tourist'. Though the difference seems slight in
>> the first of
>> each pair for me, it's much more noticeable in the second, probably
>> because the vowels last for longer.
>
>
> I will make another recording based on your requests sometime. But
> there is no such diphthong as /U@/ in my dialect.


Well, I meant words that are often marked in dictionaries as having /U@/
:) I think I've only got the diphthong in 'tour', not any other words...
Funny that it should've been immune to two sound changes trying to get
rid of it (normally [U@] -> /o:/ unless it had a /j/ before it, but
'tour' was immune for odd reasons, then [U@] became non-diphthongal and
_still_ 'tour' stayed put! I'll blame the French---they gave the word to
us).

> > I'll give you a recording of mine sometime soon too if you want.
>
> I'm certainly interested, but do you not have the space to put them
> online for the facilitation of discussion?


That's what I meant :)

> I've standardised on 96kbps as the resolution for all my mp3 files.
> It's an adequate resolution for all home use purposes (including music)
> while also resulting in respectably compact file sizes.


I've found 96 kbps MP3s to be too tiny with all but mid-quality speakers
for music---most of what I rip is roughly 192 kbps Ogg Vorbis files,
mostly because that's my software's default. But I spose that's a
different issue altogether.

>> (You also seem to have gone about looking for syllables starting in
>> st-, any particular reason? I would've thought you'd try to
>> homogenise the
>> codas, not the onsets, considering most allophonic variation in AuE is
>> condition based on the ending.)
>
>
> Some introspection convinced me that 'st' was a good onset for
> mimimising glides.

Really? What kind of glides were you finding?

> But I didn't want to make the words too regular
> in case it resulted in a tongue-twister effect, so I allowed the codas
> to vary. Having said which, I used dental codas wherever possible.


But still you get artifacts there, voiced elements lengthen diphthongs
(incl. /i:/) and /&/ and nasal elements cause nasalisation of a number
of vowels... I think a row of the IPA chart would've been a better thing
to standardise on than a column.

--
Tristan.

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