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AUXLANG  January 2005, Week 1

AUXLANG January 2005, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Interlingua pronunciation - was Re: False associations in Interlingua

From:

Thomas Alexander <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 3 Jan 2005 05:40:36 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (147 lines)

Hi Kjell,

Further down in your message from this morning (my
time stamp shows Jan 3, 2005 5:55am) you wrote that
we are perhaps losing focus.  That seems likely.

Keeping in mind that for the sake of this thread, the
"purpose of Interlingua" is to talk with people who
have not studied Interlingua, I am not saying that
I wouldn't modify my pronunciation when talkking to
people with different language backgrounds.  (Heck,
I'd even modify my vocabulary and grammar - to the
point, hopefully, that I'd be speaking more of the
local langauge influenced by Interlingua than
Interlingua influenced by the local language - but
that's another story.)  What I am saying, is that when
I do a general study of Interlingua (again, keeping
in mind "the purpose" here and acknowledging that
there may be other purposes which motivate others and
even myself at times), there is no reason to concern
ones self with "good Interlingua pronunciation."  What
is important is learning the material.  Pronouncing
the words in a way that helps me remember them is
a key goal at this point.  (For me, the pronuciation
which helps best is usually Italian.)  From there,
I can modify my pronunciation to more Italian or
less Italian, depending.

> The advantage of learning Interlinguas proper
> pronunciation is that it is easier if you talk
> to people with different language background (who
> eventually have learnt the correct pronunciation).

Eventually in the Esperanto sense (eventuale), right?

It is here that I think we have lost focus.  My
argument here (go back to my note from 29 December)
is based entirely on the word "if."

To wit:
"It seems that if the purpose of Interlingua is to
talk to people who have not actually studied the
language, then the student of this type of
Interlingua should spend more time learning how
to do this [...] Learn how to pronounce Spanish
or Italian and then pronounce Interlingua according
to those rules."

The people in the "little movement" are irrelevant to
this point.  The question is how to pronounce
Interlingua in a way that is easy to learn, yet clear
to those people outside of this group.  I contend that
a person motivated by practical considerations would
have more to gain by listening to tapes about national
languge pronuciation than to spend mental energy
considering the value of "correct" pronunciation in
Interlingua.

Look at it this way.  If I learn a "middle"
pronunciation of Interlingua, I'd have to modify
it one way to make it more clear to Spanish speakers,
and another way to make it more clear to Italian
speakers.  That's three pronunciations to learn.
 One could just as easily learn two, and modify a
Spanish pronunciation of Interlingua to be more
Italian and vise versa.

I argue against learning just one "middle"
pronunciation to use everywhere since the basic
problem we're trying to solve is to get people who
have never studied Interlingua to slow down enough
to actually try to understand what you are saying.
Using their pronunciation eliminates the first barier
to this.

> Compare this statement: If you learn Swedish you
> will also be able to understand Norwegian and
> Danish. This does not mean that you can understand
> Norwegian or Danish equally well if you learn
> Swedish. Far from it! If you are especially
> interested in Denmark you should of course learn
> Danish and not Swedish!
>
> Or you could learn Svend Vogts (Sp.) Internord and
> be able to make yourself understood in all the
> Scandinavian countries, but without speaking any
> of the languages correctly!

Last spring I had just begun to learn Bulgarian
since I fully intended to go to Bulgiaria for the
Humanitaria convention (in the same place as the
Interlingua convention had been the year before).
I wasn't ready to add another language to the list
of 17 that I already try to maintain, but I didn't
want to go to a country without making some attempt
to learn the languge.  I got as far as deciding to
treat Bulgarian as a form of Croatian.  At my stage
in learning these languages, there is little practical
difference between them.  I was going to make up
cards in Bulgarian for the words and phrases I'd
learned in Croatian, and review them as if I was
reviewing my Croatian.  (I believe I tried to find
a tape on Bulgarian but failed.)

As it turned out, I also found out then that I was
going to lose my job in a few months, so I canceled
my trip.  Still, if someone had shown me a flawlessly
done language course for an Interlingua of Croatian
and Bulgarian, it would not have captured my interest,
since my purpose was to speak to Croatians or
Bulgarians, and not both at the same time.

> If you had tapes to show you the pronunciation of
> Interlingua, it would be far better!

Perhaps, but this is more or less impossible without
going beyond the initial "if" of this thread.  If
Interlingua is promoted in a way as if the speakers
of the language are irrelevant, the materials produced
will always be a mere shadow of what can be produced
for the national languages.

I've seen a lot of crap(*) produced in Esperanto.
The good thing, however, is that you can skim enough
good material off the top to make using the language
an enjoyable experience.  This is much harder for me
to do for Interlingua since there is simply less
material in the language.  No matter how carefully
I hold my spoon, I keep scooping up a little more
crap(*) than I would like to.

(*) calling it crap isn't necessarily to say that
I think I can do better.

=====
Amike salutas,
Thomas/Tomaso ALEXANDER.
www.NightinGael.Net
---Anything below this line is not from Thomas ---



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