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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  February 2005, Week 2

CONLANG February 2005, Week 2

Subject:

Re: varia

From:

Tristan McLeay <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:54:35 +1100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (58 lines)

On 11 Feb 2005, at 9.47 am, Thomas R. Wier wrote:

> When you use it, what form follows quantifiers?  I ask, because if
> the form has really become grammaticalized as a unitary pronoun,
> one'd expect <all of y'all>, <many of y'all>, etc. and in fact
> these are the forms I use and the those that one encounters in the
> South.  I'm much less sure about it from non-Southerners.

'y'all' is occasionally---very occasionally---heard in Melbourne, but
it clearly means 'you all', and not 'youse' (which is used less
frequently that I understand 'yall' to be). It tends to be used
self-consciously, and likely to be pronounced as [jO:l] i.e. with the
otherwise non-existent 'gone' vowel and not [jo:l] as /j/+all would be;
[O:] is the vowel used for /o:/ when using a fake American accent.

To Americans that naturally use 'y'all' in everyday speech, does 'you'
sound odd/inappropriate/formal in the plural?

'Youse' seems to be used more frequently now then it used to be, but
maybe I'm just mixing with more/different people ... but I have heard a
few times when someone's phrased something with 'you' then stumbled and
used 'youse' because 'you' was ambiguous/misleading.

> ------------------------------------
> Tristan wrote:
>> Prepositions are associated with noun-adj? I would've thought the
>> other order would make more sense: a preposition is a sort of a
>> noun-modifier, isn't it?
>
> No, it's actually the head of the phrase, and behaves as heads
> do, e.g., by taking scope over noun phrase conjuncts.  The
> generalizations
> about branchedness were first noted by Greenberg about 50 years ago,
> and
> are quite strongly attested.

Ah, fancy that. Intuition's great for misleading :)

>> But if so then English's noun-adj order could precipitate Pascal's
>> Einlich wordorder changes.
>
> But that's the thing:  these are statistical universals, not absolutes.
> English DOESN'T have noun-adj order, but adj-noun order, contrary to
> the generalization about branchedness.

Yes, I got that backwards: I obviously mead English's adj-noun order
could cause Pascal's changes, or could help the generalisation of
prepositions along (as I hypothesised in an earlier post), would would
make English left-branching.

>   Mandarin is another otherwise
> highly right-branching language that has adj-noun order.



--
Tristan.

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