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AUXLANG  February 2005, Week 3

AUXLANG February 2005, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Least common denominator

From:

Rex May <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:00:05 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (133 lines)

>This raised an interesting point in my mind. "Gender" is a
characteristic
>of a noun which causes associated words to change form
depending on what
>the gender of the original word may be. We who speak both English
and
>Esperanto are quite proud of the fact that neither of them has
"gender"
>(for instance, there is no change in associated adjectives). Yet in
both
>languages, the pronoun that is used in place of the noun in question
may
>change -- more so in English than in Esperanto (where certain
classes of
>non-animate objects are generally referred to as "she" rather than
"it").
>Does this, then, mean that English and Esperanto in fact have
"gender" and
>we just don't recognize it?

No way!  Calling a ship 'she' is a simple matter of personification, and
when we do, we're attributing sex to it and not gender.  In my dialect
(South Midlands in Terre Haute, Indiana) there's a strong tendency to
personify inanimate objects, and, when doing so, to call them he or
she.  "This dang chili is too hot  he's too much for me."
This usually happens when we facetiously attribute motivations to
such objects.  The car is stubborn, whatever.
>
>&gt;(e) an international vocabulary - with the eventual goal of words
from as
>&gt;many languages as
>&gt;possible
>
>The term "international" in this context has never been well-defined to
my
>satisfaction. Does this mean that
>
>(a) words should be selected so that they are recognizable to
speakers of
>the greatest number of languages (Interlingua internationality), or
>
>(b) words should be selected so that they are recognizable to the
greatest
>number of people (Jespersenian internationality), or
>
>(c) the entire corpus of words should be selected so that as many
languages
>as possible are represented, regardless of the recognizability of
those
>words (modern "politically correct" internationality)?
>
>(Note that it is not clear to me how successfully _any_ of these three
>criteria have ever been applied in actual practice. As for (c), it's worth
>noting that if, as is sometimes quoted, there are some 6 000
languages in
>the world, and a planned language -- like Esperanto -- only has
somewhat
>more than 4 000 official roots, obviously some languages are going
to be
>shorted, even if you select only one root from any given language.)

Good point.  I'm having a relatively easy time keeping Ceqli
international.  Given the limited phonology  each morpheme
consisting of one or more consonants followed by one or more vowels
 I simply _find_ roots beginning with Mandarin (very few from there,
given that it has its own limited phonology which only slightly overlaps
Ceqli.  Then considerably more from English which is much richer in
the kinds of roots Ceqli can absorb, then on to Hindi, then Spanish,
then Japanese, etc.  The rule isn't rigid, of course, because this is at
least as much of an art as it is a science.  I get words like Cwaq
(chwang) meaning 'bed' from Mandarin,  Grin meaning 'green' from
English, Ho meaning 'become' from Hindi, Ten meaning 'have' from
Spanish, Hana meaning 'nose' from Japanese,  Xwa (shwa) from
French, etc.
>
>&gt;(f) no synonyms - only one word or name for each thing
>
>This is doable -- until the moment that your language emerges from
your
>desk into the light of day and people start speaking it. _Then_ you
will
>find synonyms coming out of your wazoo. Partly, this is due to the way
that
>different people (even different individuals within the same cultural
>matrix) map the semantic terrain of the words they are given; for
many,
>there will be overlaps, and these will propagate as synonymous
usage, even
>if the words in question weren't originally intended for this. You'll also
>have the "literateurs", who insist that, because you can't use the
same
>word twice in a given paragraph or page or chapter, you _need_
synonyms,
>and lots of them. (For the argument in Esperanto, see, i.a., the work
of
>the "Praga Skolo", notably Josef Rumler's "Abunde kaj redunde" -- I
can
>assure you, however, that his proposed synonym to "adiaux",
"sajonaraux",
>never became particularly popular.)

Hm.   I can think of several ways to say adiaw without making a
synonym, unless you think of them as 'ad hoc' synonyms  that is,
synonyms in a certain context, but not in others  "ghis revido" or just
"ghis", "malfrue!"  "Poste" or even "Vidos".   We could also just
translate other language's idioms, if they're transparent enough.  "Dio
gardu," etc.
>
>&gt;Any other essential attributes for an initial conIAL (auxlang) to be
>&gt;launched globally (throughout
>&gt;the civilised world) in the not-tto-distant future? I'd further
suggest:
>&gt;
>&gt;(g) a preliminary international core vocabulary
>&gt;
>&gt;(h) a restricted phonology, with no consonant clusters etc.
>&gt;
>&gt;(i) neither too exact a specification of speech sounds nor any
initial
>&gt;ruling on stress, pitch, tone
>&gt;etc.
>&gt;
>&gt;(j) a UN (or its successor) with teeth, capable of implementing
such a program
>&gt;
>&gt;(k) a means for preventing the said global authority from
becoming an
>&gt;oppressive tyranny and the
>&gt;IAL from turning into Newspeak.

I think a UN with teeth and no oppressive tyranny is an oxymoron, but
that's just me.

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