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CONLANG  February 2005, Week 4

CONLANG February 2005, Week 4

Subject:

Re: LUNATIC SURVEY: 2005

From:

Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 26 Feb 2005 18:20:55 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (641 lines)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A. PROFESSION, DEMOGRAPHICS, INCLINATION:

>1. Who are you, and what is the name of your invented language or
>languages? Pseudonyms allowed. (Are you using one? asked "Sally Caves")
---Roger Mills (real); Kash; Gwr (begun), Prevli (gestating)

>*2. Are you new to the Lunatic Survey or have you filled out a version of
>this survey before?
---Answered the 2003 version I'm sure

>3. Do you have a website for you language/world(s)? If so, please list the
>URL address.
---http://cinduworld.tripod.com/contents.htm

>4. What is your email address? name at hostsite dot whatever.
--- rfmilly--msn-com (you know where the things go)

>5. What is your age? (vague answers allowed, but it is an important
>demographic)
---fast approaching 71

>6. What is your gender?
---male (and gay, if that makes any difference)

>7. What is your nationality?  Where do you live now?
USA, Michigan

>8. What is your native language?
---Murrcan English

>9. What natural languages foreign to you have you studied or do you speak?
---Spanish, Indonesian (can still read and speak); Italian (in desuetude);
Sanskrit (one summer term). Reading knowledge of French, German, Dutch,
Portuguese

>10. What is your level of education? i.e., your highest degree achieved or
>sought?
--PhD (Linguistics, specialized in comparative Indonesian)

>11. What is your profession? Are you a professional linguist? If so, what
>also makes you a conlanger?
--- long retired from the fray, whatever that was. I intended to be a
professional linguist-- it happened only briefly, but I still do research.

>13. N/A
>14. How long have you been developing your invented language(s)?
---Kash and the idea of Gwr arose sometime in early 1976; Kash began to
develop seriously in 1999 when I got a computer; Gwr tagged along; Prevli
began gestating maybe 2-3 years ago.

>15. At what age did you first start inventing a language? Can you briefly
>describe your early efforts?
---Sometime around age 12-14 (1946-48). First one, just pages of verbal
conjugations (hybrid Sanskrit-Latin)) which I know was complete when I
entered boarding school in Sept.1949. Second one, a script and religious
texts in summer of 1950. A couple of minor efforts, mostly joke-langs, at
around the same time. Then a big hiatus till 1976.

>16. What drew you to start inventing a language and/or constructed world?
>What was the inspiration?
Early: probably finding mother's old college (vintage 1920s) Latin and
English grammars in the bookshelf; older sister's HS Spanish textbook;
reading all the articles on "Philology", languages and families and
cross-refs in old (vintage 1900) encylopedia in the attic. First friend at
boarding school-- who'd spent a year or two in a British Public School and
knew Greek-- had invented a regularized Romance lang. and translated part of
"Through the Looking Glass" (Per lo mirroro).
1976: In doldrums at my first teaching job I'd read a lot of Sci-Fi,
including everything by Le Guin; suddenly a first-contact story began to
take shape in my head, a rerun of LHOD, which led to the creation of Planet
Cindu and the associated languages.

>17. Did you start inventing before you had heard of the list or after?
>Before you had heard of Esperanto or Tolkien? (I name the two most common
>inspirations)
---Totally out of the blue. I recall buying the E-o grammar probably in AY
1949-50 and was utterly unimpressed. Read "The Hobbit" in early 60s, LOTR in
75-6 but was unaware of JRRT's conlanging until a bit later-- never pursued
Silmarillion (sp?) as I found his world just a bit too whimsical for my
taste. Looking at the Ardalambion site, and this list, have increased my
knowledge and respect of him.

>18. Tolkien calls it a "shy art" and a "secret vice"; but that was before
>the Internet....
--- Definitely. My 1st language became known at school, and the negative
reaction didn't help matters. My friend and I were definitely considered
weird.
>...How secret do you keep it from others outside this list for much the
>same reasons?
--- Basically yes.

>19. Yaguello has called it "pathological," influenced, unfortunately, by a
>lot of psychiatric writings such as _Le Schizo et la langue_. To what
>extent have you encountered such reactions by outsiders you had taken into
>your confidence?
---My sister (and parents if they were still alive) definitly (I hope in
jest) considers it so.  Non-family friends react more favorably, even with
interest. Personally, I don't consider it pathological, just a rather
esoteric pastime....

>*20. Do you consider it nerdy to be doing this? This is a term that gets
>tossed around a lot. Or actually sophisticated? Do you need to get a life,
>or is this your life? What is a life?
---See just above. I'm way too old, settled, outwardly conventional and
distinguished to be considered a nerd. Eccentric yes (as one friend put it:
an eccentric is a nut with a decent income).

>21. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and musical
>ability. Are you musically inclined? Do you sing and/or play a musical
>instrument? Do you compose music?
---Love almost all forms of music, classical~serious best of all. Play
piano, but rusty; I keep meaning to practice again-- I did briefly a few
years ago, but stopped in 99 (computer purchase-- coincidence?). Have ideas
for compositions, but few of them ever see light of day.  There does seem to
be a language(creativity?)-to-music link.

>22. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and mathematical
>ability. Are you mathematically inclined or inclined towards computing in
>any way?
---Enjoyed math, but never made it past Plane Geometry and a little trig.; 2
weeks of college calculus put a stop to my career as a pre-architecture
major.  But the answers by many here show a definite link.  BTW, it's also
been said there's a math-music link, so maybe all of math-language-music are
somehow interrelated-- such people have better connections between the
brain's hemispheres w.r.t. structure/analysis/"grammar"/"rhythm"???.

>23. What other passions do you pursue that give you creative pleasure?
>(painting, drawing, sculpting, calligraphy, model-building, novel or
>story-writing, role-playing games, map-making, book-making, poetry,
>web-designing, star-gazing or other?)
As a child I liked to draw-- buildings and landscapes-- and would like to
revive that skill now. No formal training; never could draw the human figure
:-((. Began drawing maps (esp. cities) around age 12-13, which led to
fictitious countries, e.g. Dogdom, Catdom, Chickendom...It's no coincidence
that the large island (Yanatros) where Kash is spoken is almost exactly the
old Catdom (dates to 1943 or so). During HS I wrote a few stories and lots
of poems (got published in the school mag.); still write poetry, but none
has ever been published, and only rarely shared. Continuing but slow-paced
research in Indonesian languages keeps the brain functioning too.

B. FEATURES OF YOUR INVENTION

>1. Pick the best term for the invented language you are currently invested
>in: auxlang, artlang, engelang, loglang, lostlang, philosophical language,
>or "other." etc.
---artlang

>2. Is your conlang a priori (devised from scratch) or a posteriori (based
>on an existing natural language or drawing from a language class such as
>Semitic)?
---a priori, though influenced underlyingly by both Spanish and Indonesian.

>4. Do you have a script for your conlang? What is it called? Could you
>provide me at a later date with a sample of it?  Is it on Langmaker's
>"neography" site?
---yes. The alphabet is called "hakanga" [xa'kaNga], after the first 3
letters. It's on my website; don't think I've gotten around to the Neography
site yet, though the website is in the Langmaker list.

>5. Briefly describe the outlines of your invented language (syntactical
>structure--VO, OV, etc.; class or type--analytic, synthetic, agglutinating,
>incorporative, accusative, ergative, active, trigger, other, combinations,
>etc.), noting what you have done with it that is innovative in your
>opinion.
---SVO and topic/comment, somewhat agglutinating, otherwise analytical.
Vaguely modeled on Indonesian, but with cases/verb tenses. Accusative. No
marked passive voice or "subjunctive". Derivation by affixes and/or
compounding. Innovative? probably not very-- maybe the "accidental" verb
forms, e.g. tikas 'see' > caka/tikas 'have a sudden flash of insight'???

>7. How extensive would you say your invented language is, now? How big the
>vocabulary? Do you provide a vocabulary list or taxonomy on your website if
>you have one?
---Phonology and morphology essentially complete; lexicon is probably in the
neighborhood of 5-6000 words/derivations and always growing. All on the
website.

>8. How do you build vocabulary? Some people pull words out of the air;
>others build up a base of root words and affixes. Many do both.
---I search a base of forms created with the old Langmaker program, adding
on if the "right" form doesn't exist; assign a meaning, which usu. leads to
derivations, compounds, colloquial variants, and often to associated
meanings, e.g. from "see" I went to glimpse/spy, examine, watch/look at etc.

>3. Does a constructed world accompany your invention(s)? What is it called?
---Yes. In Kash: Cindu ['tSindu] < Gwr, Tring Du [t`s`iN du] 'dry land'

>*9. Has your language and conworld ever served in a role-playing game or a
>world shared by other conlangers?
--no

>*10. Briefly describe your conculture (is it within the bounds of this
>world? on another world, etc.?)
---An earth-like planet and environment, with tweaks. Three  intelligent
species: Kash, evolved from a panther-like sp., telepathic; Lañ-Lañ
evidently from a different "cat" sp., not telepathic; Gwr, from a "simian"--
all the result of genetic tinkering by the ancient Hainish space-faring
civilization (that idea nicked from Le Guin)

>*11. Are the beings who speak your invented language human or alien? If
>alien, what features have you given the language to make it alien or how
>have you restricted or expanded its phonology? vocabulary?
---They're alien in form, but perforce "human" in mentality (except for the
telepathy). The languages could easily be Terran...I'm just not that
imaginative. The conculture has lagged the languages; only recently have I
begun putting up organized info on the website.

>12. What do you write in it? Poems? chants? lullabyes? prayers? history?
>stories? recipes? Are any of these exhibited on your website?
---Some original poetry; various translations, a recipe (adapted from the
Chinese)...on the website. Stories, chants etc. only in the idea stage.

>13. Can you speak your conlang? Are you fluent in it? Is this a goal for
>you? Have you tried to teach it to an intimate? a companion animal? :)
---a few set phrases like "I don't know, I don't care"; can read it
reasonably well. Current batch of cats aren't linguistically inclined; in
the 60s I had two who knew 3 words of Indonesian-- susu, makan, luar, resp.
'milk, eat, out'

>14. Have you made any soundbytes of your language? Could you provide me at
>a later date with a sample of them?
---Not yet, but it's in the offing.

>*15. If you use Roman script, how recognizably "phonetic" is your writing
>system? In other words, do you use unconventional letters or letter
>combinations to represent sounds? Why or why not? I'm thinking, of course,
>of Etabnannery, for those who remember it.
---Having begun linguistic study in the last days of Descriptive Phonemics
etc., I'm firmly wedded to the idea of one sound, one symbol. Both the
native alphabet and romanization obey that dictum, with some regular
morphophonemic changes.

>16. How many of you sing in your language and have invented songs for that
>purpose?
---ideas, but I don't sing. Also, I not sure they use our conventional
Western scale....anyway, as the saying goes, I can't carry a tune out the
backdoor.

>*17. How many of you, for entertainment or any other reason, resort to
>gibberish? (This is in response to Adrian Morgan's question in December).
>Does it give you ideas for conlanging? (Have you ever fooled anyone?) How
>many of you have sung gibberish?
---No. But that or the word-game thread led to some ideas (like reversing or
inserting syllables

>*18. What on-line games do you play? (or devise?) Translations, Babel-text,
>Relays, etc.
---Always do trans. exercises and most relays; Babel text is in the offing.

>19. Which do you prefer doing: devising phonology? script? structure?
>building vocabulary?
---Phonology and script came first; the original morphology, vocab. and
script underwent changes in the 20+year gap between first inspiration and
development on the computer. Now that these things are essentially settled,
I find vocab. and culture building more intriguing.
I'm following the same procedure with Gwr and Prevli

>20. Do you start and stop several different conlangs, or do you tend to
>stick with one and develop it over years?
---I seem to be a one-at-a-time person, which is why Gwr and Prevli and
developing so slowly....

>21. What do you think makes a "complete" conlang, if a conlang can attain
>completion? What are your goals for completion? When do you grow "tired" of
>your conlang, or don't you?
---Not even a natlang is ever "complete", since new concepts are constantly
being fitted into old words; likewise a conlang, with the added problem that
the inventor (me) is lacking knowledge of certain areas (like the hard
sciences).

>*22. Which came first: the conlang or the conworld?
---Both at once.  As someone mentioned, the conlang took over...


C. PHILOSOPHY AND AESTHETIC:

>1. What aesthetic features do you value in inventing language? Be specific
>as to phonology, structure, script, etc.
--- "Attractiveness" and "realism/naturalism", which are entirely
subjective.

>2. What commonly applied aesthetics have you ever tried to avoid in your
>invention? This has been an oft debated question, especially when it comes
>to Tolkien.
---If I ever set out to create a deliberately "pretty", euphonious (or the
reverse) lang., it probably wouldn't resemble anything by JRRT.

>3. Is difficulty or obscurity a goal in inventing a language?
Not for me, though one tries to be original.  But if I can't pronounce it
fluently, or need an hour per sentence, it's no fun.

>4. Is efficiency a goal in inventing a language? This question needn't
>cancel out the previous one.
---Meaning? Utility? Of course, one should be able to say almost anything.

>5. How natural do you wish to make it, or is that a concern? Or rather, how
>unnatural do you wish to make it?
---Naturalism is indeed a concern (but it's subjective, as I said). I
question whether I could create something really unnatural (like Ebisedian
to some extent, or the recent discussion of stack-based langs.), though I
find such things very interesting and admirable.

It will be a challenge (if I ever get to it) to create the imagistic
telepathy that Kash monks use to communicate with the wild relatives. I
assume that in inter-human use it's become largely verbal; but that wouldn't
really work with wild animals, where "go east" would have to be an image of
the heading toward the sunrise, or a landmark;
"surround the prey" would have to be a mental picture. But how one
transmits/receives more abstract discussion-- which is possible-- is another
matter.

>6. Can conlanging be sexy? sensual? obsessing? how does it heal or harm
>you?
Obsessing certainly-- I spend altogether too much time reading Conlang and
working on Kash (but what else is one to do during a Michigan winter?).
Sensual, maybe, when I try to write con-poetry/prose in a presumably native
style. Sexy, naaaah.

>*7. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of obscenities?
---Not rich, but they're there. I plan to write an extensive
somewhat-XXXrated "Kash sexual practices", entirely in Kash.

>8. Can it be mystical? To what extent does conlanging fulfill a spiritual
>purpose for you? Or a magical one? Did it ever start out that way?
---The mystical beginnings are there, as part of the culture. Otherwise no
to the remainder

>9. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of magical, religious,
>or incantatory terms?
---No, but I will eventually; at present, only some terms for telepathic
practices.

>*10. How many of you have striven to invent words that express novel ideas,
>or are not expressed in any natural language that you know?
---It may happen accidentally, but not deliberately. (I don't think I have
anything as difficult as Gethenian "shifgrethor" in Kash.) I recall a
website that did this for English-- e.g. "the cool side of the pillow"-- fun
but unnecessary IMO

>11. Name a few of the words in your language(s) that you are most pleased
>with and are the most original to you.
---(1)haniyu [xa'ni.u] 'soul, mind, consciousness' with a large number of
compounds for personal qualities, mental states, telepathic matters.
(2)kondrop 'obtuse; clueless'-- lots of /-p/ words have to do with dumb,
silly, icky things; and çenjik ['SEndZik] 'stoic, stolid' an important
quality for the Kash (and for me)
(3)some of the "accidental" (caka-) verbs seem well done, e.g. nuro 'deep' >
caka/nuro '(of a ship) lost at sea', and some elicit a chuckle when I
discover them......

>12. How do you sense that a word is "right" for its meaning? How much do
>you labor at fitting a sound to its sense? Or don't you care?
---(Kash) A lot of scrolling thru the list of possible forms; lately I've
been focussing on areas that have no meanings assigned, to avoid too many
"favorite" sounds. A certain amount of labor, but it's not overly crucial.
(Gwr) just the reverse-- I usually know the modern form, then have to figure
out which proto-form it could derive from.

>*13. Do you ever rely on a software program to build vocabulary? Do those
>who don't think that's cheating? :)
---I used Langmaker to generate the original Kash list; it didn't work well
for Gwr; but the program got lost so I do it by hand now.

>*14. Is conlang a hobby, a craft, or an art in your mind?...
---all of these.
>...This has been hotly debated, so the question is not as weird as it
>seems. Can conlanging be considered an art? Why or why not?
---I believe it can be, and indeed _is_. We create form and structure, and
beauty (albeit subjective), and it is non-utilitarian. (Cf. Christo's
"Gates"-- I've seen the photos online, and deeply regret I won't be able to
visit in person.

>*15. If it is, who do you think are its consumers?
For the moment, I guess, just other conlangers. But Tolkien's langs. and
Klingon have achieved wider appreciation, so there's always hope.

>*16. This question is directed as well at any auxlangers on the list. Is it
>an art, a political tool, both? And who do you think could be its
>consumers?
---I'm not sympathetic at all toward auxlangs-- but will grant that at least
some art is involved, but is overcome by the politics and idealism. Also,
auxlangs seem completely lacking in humor, which I do feel underlies a lot
of conlanging. I'll except Europanto (at least in its first appearance on
the web a few years ago; I don't know if total seriousness has invaded it
nowadays)

>*17. There has been some exciting talk recently (and over the years) about
>what a conlang is or is not. If you could pick a metaphor or write a
>descriptive phrase defining "conlang," what would that be?
---A language invented for one's own personal purposes and/or satisfaction
(that leaves out auxlangs)

>*18. Why or why not would you eschew the metaphors "miniature" or "model"?
---Those terms fit only in the artistic sense-- "model" of a building that
may/could never be built; a "miniature" of some imaginary object.

>*19. Is a conlang more like a glimpse of something lifesize? (Irina's
>suggestion in 2001)
I like this very much. Somewhere I read or heard: "We've all seen large maps
of the known world; I offer small maps of an unknown world". Ex ungue,
Hercules.

>*20. There has been some invigorating discussion lately about what a
>conlang can do that most natural languages don't (such as produce OSV
>structure, or eradicate verbs) What experiments have you made with your
>artlang(s) along these lines?
---I once tried an "all noun" language, but it ended up with "nouns" like
"running" and Latinate cases to indicate roles. Not satisfactory.

>*21  What do you think distinguishes a conlang from a natural language, if
>you think so at all?  What would it take for a linguist to be fooled into
>thinking a conlang was a natural language?
---Intrinsically, nothing. Many a priori and posteriori langs could very
easily exist as natlangs, and I've seen natlangs reported in no more detail
than a good website does......OTOH, too many phonological/ grammatical
oddities, or conversely too much regularity, often give away the conlanger's
hand.

With the proper scholarly tone and apparatus (footnotes, real/fake bibliog.
etc.), I suspect many of our languages could fool a lot of linguists; if
Kash were actually an a posteriori Austronesian language (phonolgically it
could be!), in terms of structure I think it would be a candidate; Jan's
Wenedyk (Polish orthography aside) could easily be an obscure Romance
dialect; his "Hattic" was presented very realistically as an IE language.
One could probably easily get away with setting a conlang in Africa, still
such a terra incognita.

>*22. How much do you study other languages in order to discover what is
>natural in language? Or to discover how you can stretch the boundaries of
>language to make it do things that are unnatural?
---In the course of graduate work and research, I've looked at many-- most
in the Austronesian family; but not consciously to borrow/adopt ideas. As
mentioned, I personally wouldn't aim to do something deliberately
"unnatural"

>*23. Can such a language function?
---Probably, but with difficulty. Cf. the problems people sometimes have in
the relays (no names!!)

>*24. There has been quite a bit of fascinating debate about the relevance
>of conlanging to linguistic study. We all know that linguistics can aid
>conlangers, but in what ways can conlangers aid linguists? Or does it
>matter?
---On balance, IMO not much contribution from conlanging, except as
interesting experiments. OTOH a non-relex created by someone absolutely
innocent of formal linguistics might be of interest to psycholinguistics.


D. THE LISTSERV

>1. How did you first hear of this list?
---I'd spent several months on Langmaker, when Pablo Flores (blessed be
he!!) suggested I join Conlang, around Feb/Mar 2000.

>2. How long have you been on this listserv or on other related listservs?
>Continuously? Infrequently? Off and on? More off than on and vice versa?
---Aside from 2-3 week vacations, continuously since Feb/Mar 2000.

>*3. What is the appeal of being on a listserv and contributing to it? Do
>you think you contribute moderately or excessively, or not enough? Do you
>tend to lurk ?
---It is just such immense fun. There is such a wide variety and people and
intelligences here that it constantly amazes me. I contribute often, though
whether anyone pays any attention is another matter........

>*4. For those of you who remember its inception, how has it changed over
>the past decade?
---From what I've seen of the earliest fragmentary archives (collected by
John Cowan and others, back to around 93/4 IIRC), it now seems somewhat less
specialized (not a criticism), and also vastly more active and OT-chatty
(not a criticism either). And of course, little auxlang stuff. This probably
has more to do with increasing ease of using the internet than any real
change in the members.

>*5. How helpful has the list been in developing your language? In learning
>linguistic information?
---In the 20+ years I was essentially out of the linguistic loop, many new
theories and a lot of scholarship came and went-- the list has helped me
catch up there. And to quite an extent, in developing Kash/Gwr, even though
K. at least was pretty well settled in its mold prior to my joining.

>6. What books have you consulted? On your own, or because you heard of them
>on the list?
---Describing Morphosyntax (still haven't done more than skim it-- I know so
much, yeah right!); Comrie's Typology, and IE stuff, and an OT text.
Otherwise, I feel I was well prepared by my education for Kash ~conlanging
in general.

>*7. Do you peruse the websites of other conlangers?
---Always, admittedly for varying lengths of time.....

>*8. Do you sense that people on this list are interested in your conlang
>and give you feedback on it?
---Yes, AFAICT.

>9. Have you ever set out to learn at least a little bit of someone's
>conlang, if only a word or two, or a phrase?
---Not deliberately, but sometimes quite a lot sinks in.

>*10. Do you peruse Jeffrey Henning's Langmaker.com site?
---Occasionally.

>*11. What on-line techniques do you use to showcase your conlang, such as
>Audacity or other sound programs, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, Fontography,
>and so forth? Did you hear of them on the list?
---I learned to do passable HTML, very useful, thanks to encouragement from
Christophe Grandsire. I used High-Logics FCP for my fonts-- probably learned
of it from the list. But am blissfully ignorant of most techy things. A
friend is going to help me do some sound recordings.

>12. Have you ever tried to introduce a friend to the list?
---No; my conlang-tolerant and fantasy-minded friend is aware of it, but
doesn't follow it I'm sure.

>13. Do you know of anyone who does this kind of thing but who has never
>heard of the list?
---No

>*14. What other lists do you frequent related to conlanging?
---Am subscribed to Langmaker, Neographies, Romconlang, Lostlangs, but
mostly lurk.
Also, a Nostratic List (might as well be a conlang!) and Cybalist (IE), a
nice source of scholarship and the occasional idea-- e.g. recent discussion
that at least some stative verbs may derive from the IE perfect, e.g. "have
seen" > know. And a professional AN list that is much too quiet.

>*15. What do you think will be the future of the list? I see it giving
>birth to alternate lists like Conworld, Lostlanguages, Romlang, etc. What
>improves the present list and its helpfulness or entertainment value?
---The internet, and increasing membership, makes the fragmentation
inevitable I suppose; otherwise I can't suggest any improvements, and hope
we stay pretty much as we are. More cross-posting, or at least an alert when
new material is posted on an ancillary list, would be nice.

>*16. What Internet technology would you most like to see developed that
>would aid you in showcasing your language(s)?
---Being a relative computer-dummy, I wish things like font creation, sound
recording, et al. were a little simpler.

>*17. What lists like conlang exist in other cultures and languages that you
>know of?
---I subscribe, and occasionally post, to the Spanish Ideolengua list--but
it's a very different place; far less discussion/presentation of actual
conlangs, much more linguistic/dialect discussion; good info on Basque and
native (non-Span.) languages of Latin America; occasional dialect flamewars
(esp. Catalunya vs. Valencia, ho-hum) and auxlanger invasions (which get the
same chilly reception there as here :-))) ).  Thanks to Yitzik, I'm aware of
French and Russian lists, but have never investigated them.

>*18. There has been some terrific talk about CONLANG as a community. And
>yet so many of us seem to want the world to know of it and respect it. Is
>the CONLANG community enough?
---I think so. It may increase, as it has been doing lately, but I can't
ever see our arcane and esoteric interests catching on in the wider world,
except in the sense that people may come to think "Well, if so many are
doing it, maybe it's not geeky and weird after all..."

>*19. In my 2000 on-line article
>(http://journal.media-culture.org.au/0003/languages.php) I suggested that
>the Internet "may provide a site that, with the impetus of competition and
>showmanship, encourages inutile and obsessive activity"; I was quoting Jeff
>Salamon's article "Revenge of the Fanboys." Village Voice 13 Sep., 1994. He
>wrote that over ten years ago...
---As far as this list is concerned, I don't agree with his adjectives :-(
>...Do outsiders still entertain such notions, do you think, about listservs
>like this one? Do you?...
---It's quite likely in other areas, e.g. wacky personal hobby-horse sites.
I don't worry about it; most websites of all sorts are interesting, and
often informative.
>...To what extent has the list increased obsessive development in you?
---To some extent, probably; my sister certainly thought so, when I had
dial-up and was unavailable by phone for hours on end....
>...Would you be inventing as furiously as you are without the list or
>knowledge of other inventors?
---Almost certainly not. It's a very good impetus.

>20. If asked whether it is not better to turn your linguistic talents to
>the learning and speaking of natural languages (a common response I've met
>with and aimed at criticizing introversion or solipsism), how would you
>answer?
---One learns a language for some reason-- travel, literature; but learning
or even examining a lang. just out of interest or for purposes of linguistic
analysis isn't all that practical in the view of most non-pros.  The better
linguistic argument is that, having been trained, we should be concerned
with recording and rescuing for posterity as many of the world's languages
as possible. If only as a contribution to the body of knowledge.

>*21. In Elizabethan times there were the inkhorn neologisms. There were
>ciphers and pasigraphies. Today there is conlanging. Do you think the
>contemporary world is more open to language innovation or more closed?
---Innovation, yes; invention, still not, though I think the LOTR movies
have had an influence. Although at snail's pace, parts of the world seems to
be coming to appreciate diversity of all sorts now more than in the past
(even within my lifetime).

>*22. What would Tolkien have done with such a community? He writes in "A
>Secret Vice" that language inventors "hardly ever show their works to one
>another, so none of them know who are the geniuses at the game, or who are
>the splendid 'primitives'."...
---For just those reasons, I think he'd be delighted with our efforts.
>...He suggests that perhaps in a later time language invention will become
>respectable, and such things can be exhibited. Have we reached that time?
---We are close-- perhaps as close as we'll ever get; and thanks in large
part to him.

>*23. Is there a danger that over-exposure can make conlanging "banal"?...
---No. Overexposure is hardly possible, owing to general, and
understandable, lack of interest in things linguistic.
>...To what extent is it exciting because it is a) considered disreputable,
>"corny" or "mad," or b) largely unknown to the world?
---Possibly, at least in the past. The analogy of coming out of the closet
is very apt-- what the young gay person thought was private, stigmatized,
aberrant behavior is suddenly discovered to have its own very real, vibrant
world and (sub)culture. One is no longer alone. LOTR movies, and cultural
change, have made it easier to come out of many closets.
>...Does it have a fizzle-out date?  In other words, is it just a fad, or is
>it a natural human inclination that will stand the test of time?
---Fizzle out? Very doubtful IMO. I think the invention of languages and/or
alternate realities has always been there, even if almost all past efforts
bloomed unseen. The LOTR movies may have created a bit of a fad, but the
faddists will soon lose interest and fall off the bandwagon.

>Finally, may I have your permission to use any of this material of yours
>for my academic work on conlanging? First name? last name? pseudonym?
>anonymous?
---Yes of course. I'm sure you'll let us know when we can buy the book :-))
and I'll definitely be looking forward to it-- it's a very worthwhile
project.
================================================

What a pleasant way to have spent an afternoon :-)  I should check the
archive to see how these answers compare with 2003, provided I replied to
the list then....

>Thanks!
>Sally Caves [log in to unmask]

_haté_ pando makuvus.

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