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CONLANG  April 2005, Week 2

CONLANG April 2005, Week 2

Subject:

CHAT Paradiso, Canto VII (was: History of constructed languages)

From:

Ray Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:42:41 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (98 lines)

On Monday, April 11, 2005, at 03:38 , caeruleancentaur wrote:

> --- In [log in to unmask], "Elyse M. Grasso" <emgrasso@D...>
> wrote:
>> Sabaoth occurs in the old Latin mass. I think in the Sanctus,

yep, in both the pre-Tridentine (known to Dante), Tridentine (known to us
old'uns) & the _modern_ post-Tridentine versions :)

>> but
>> it's been a long time since I sang one. (If you can find liner notes
>> for Beethoven's Mass in C Major, that will have it, because that's
>> the mass I sang.) I don't think malacoth occurs in the main liturgy,
>> but it may have shown up in High masses or requiems or something...

Nope.

>> liner notes for other religious pieces might have it.
>
> "Old" Latin Mass? It is still part of the Mass in Latin:

Quite so - we say this each week (our Parish has uses the modern Latin
Mass each week for its Thursday Mass).

>
> Sanctus, sanctus, sanctus Dominus Deus Sabaoth.
> Pleni sunt caeli et terra gloria tua.
> Hosanna in excelsis.
> Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini.
> Hosanna in excelsis.
>
> "Dominus Deus Sabaoth" is translated as "Lord God of Hosts" from the
> Hebrew "Yahweh Sebaoth."

The English version of the liturgy used in the UK has: "Holy, holy, holy,
Lord God of power & might..."

> The meaning is unclear. It first occurs in
> the First Book of Samuel. It may refer to the armies of Israel or
> the heavenly armies, i.e., the stars or the angels. It is
> particularly associated with the shrine built for the Ark of the
> Covenant at Shiloh.

Yep - and, of course, the first part of the Sanctus is similar to Isaiah 6:
3 which in the Septuagint version has:
hagios, hagios, hagios Kyrios Sabao:th

Old Latin versions obviously had "sanctus, sanctus, sanctus Dominus
Sabaoth", tho the Vulgate version itself has "Sanctus, sanctus, sanctus
Dominus, Deus exercituum", where the Hebrew 'Sabaoth' is translated as
"Deus exercituum" (God of armies).

But many modern English translations now have: "Holy, holy, holy Yahweh
Sabaoth", and I find that Zamenhof's translation of the same Hebrew words
in Esperanto are: "Sankta, sankta, sankta estas la Eternulo Cebaot."

So, yes, 'Sabaoth' would be hardly an unusual word for Dante and, as Steg
pointed out, is not itself Cabbalistic (even if Cabbalists may have given
it some significance of their own) - it's just Hebrew Scriptures YWHH
Tseva'ot, or in the LXX Kyrios Sabao:th.

Indeed, the opening line of Paradiso VII surely is meant to echo the chant
familiar from the Mass: "Sanctus, sanctus, sanctus Dominus Deus
Sabaoth........Hosanna in excelsis!"

As for 'malacoth'.......
=======================
On Monday, April 11, 2005, at 06:38 , [log in to unmask] [Steg] wrote:
[snip]
> "Malacoth" i'm not sure about... it could be _malkhut_, "kingship" or
> "kingdom", which does have Cabbalistic significance; it's the lowermost
> of the _sefirot_ (emanations), identified with the 'Shekhina', the
> Presence of God. if i remember correctly.
> Or it could be _melakhot_, "works" (plural noun, not singular verb).

Either, I guess, is possible. I think the former is intended, however. But
I don't think it necessarily has Cabbalistic meaning here. My footnotes
translate the Latin & Hebrew of the first three lines of the Canto as:
"Salve, o santo Dio degli eserciti, alluminante di sopra la tua chiarezza
i bene avventurati fuochi (i beati spiriti lucenti) di questi regni" which,
  if my Italian does not entirely fail me, means: "Hail, Oh Holy God of
armies (Sabaoth), enlightening from above with your brilliance the
fortunate fires (the blessed shining spirits) of these kingdoms."

It also says the singing here in Latin & Hebrew signifies, in Dante's view,
  the unity of the Old Israel & the New Israel (the Church).

I do not see any 'conlanging' going on in this canto.

Ray
===============================================
http://home.freeuk.com/ray.brown
[log in to unmask]
===============================================
Anything is possible in the fabulous Celtic twilight,
which is not so much a twilight of the gods
as of the reason." [JRRT, "English and Welsh" ]

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