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AUXLANG  May 2005, Week 1

AUXLANG May 2005, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Pachio (was: Re: Still Further Back)

From:

Mafke <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 2 May 2005 12:08:25 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (51 lines)

From: "James Chandler" <[log in to unmask]>

Anyone who makes the effort to learn Ido and
> apply them will find they quickly become second nature, as well as
producing
> highly natural spoken forms.

You could say the same thing about anything you personally don't like about
esperanto (and eo-supporters do). As an argument "in practice, ..." or
"anyone who makes the effort ...." don't work very well.
One advantage of a single rule with no exceptions is that it removes stress
as a distinctive feature and even systematic departures from the rule will
be less noticeable.
I've heard many individual departures from eo's penultimate-stress rule
(usually moving it to the first syllable or in front of -io, and sometimes
moving primary stress to mal-.
The more complicated you make the stress rules (no matter what the original
aim) the more important you make stress. I doubt if that's a good idea.

and define "natural" (please don't include the words "what I'm used to",
even in spirit)

> On the question of double vowels, why dont we ask how the Dickens to
> pronounce a word like Esp 'scii'.  Not just the double i, but what about
the
> consonant cluster [sts] ?!  I'll be damned if I can get my poor English
> tongue around that one.

You can't say "fast song" or "best season"  (let alone "first strike" or
"glimpsed sprites"? that last has [-mpstspr-] more fearful than anything eo
can throw up.

I do agree that Zhof's decision to end some roots with the same vowels that
can begin affixes was a poor design decision. The double vowels especially
are moderately vexing in Esperanto and I've heard various approaches toward
them by fluent speakers. Some put a glottal stop between them [i'i] others a
glide (producing in effect [iji]) I probably tend toward the latter.
I wouldn't be suprised if speakers of some languages that have long, short
distinctions produce something like [i:] though I can't vouch for having
heard it.
At least IINM everytime a double vowel occurs in eo, one of the two is
stressed, which means in casual speech you could probably just drop one and
be understood (in the following ' after a vowel indicates that the vowel is
stressed)

'vi devas sci', kie ili loghas.\
'mi sci's, ke shi uzas firma'n automobilon'
"ghu' la filmon."

-michael farris

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