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CONLANG  June 2005, Week 2

CONLANG June 2005, Week 2

Subject:

Re: A C-a grammar question

From:

Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:46:27 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (108 lines)

--- Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Adam Walker wrote:
> > I happened upon
> > this one sentence that made me pause:
> >
> > «Echa, esti junu fapu grandu pera undrari junu
> > cadoligu ils cunxueduñis djils huidelis.» dichid
> al
> > chimpeda.
> >
> > It parses as:
> >
> > already be.3rd.sg.pres one/a.masc. deed/act/fact
> > great/large/big for to.honor one/a.masc Catholic
> > the.neut.pl custom.pl of.the.neut.pl faithful.pl
> > say.3rd.sg.past the.fem. beggar
> >
> > Or more smoothly,
> >
> > "Already it's a deed great for to.honor a Catholic
> the
> > customs of.the faithful." said the beggar.
> >
> > And I translated it as:
> >
> > "It is already a great deed for a Catholic to
> honor
> > the customs of the Faithful," said the beggar.
> >
> > What I'm wondering is, do any of you find the
> original
> > difficult to parse?
>
> A bit, perhaps, not that you point it out. I'm
> thinking that in most Romance
> languages, a for-to clause with change of subject is
> more likely to be
> introduced with que/che etc. and take the
> subjunctive.  Are these not
> options?  For Ex. Spanish, more or less: ya es gran
> hecho QUE(~CUANDO, SI)
> UN CATÓLICO HONRE (~HAGA HONOR A) los costumbres de
> los Fideles. (Not really
> sure about the subjunctive, it just feels right for
> some reason)
>

Hmm.  Maybe I should change to FI (the C-a cognate of
que/che) rather than PERA.  That does seem more
Romance.  And knowing when C-a should use the
subjunctive just gives me fits.

>  I'm considering adding the word
> > "ad" meaning "to" between "cadoligu" and "ils"
> which
> > would make:
>
> Not sure it makes all that much difference; the
> difficulty IMO is the
> _Prep+verb +(subj. of vb)_ sequence.  In Span. and
> Ital. at least, the
> subject of a para/per+verb has to be be mentioned in
> the  intro. clause---
> lo hizo para onrar a su padre 'he did it to honor
> his father'.

C-a:  Falud si pera undrari jun ad il su parri.
Do.3rd.sg.past it.obj for to.honor he to the his
father.

Or: le dan
> dinero para que viaje 'they give him money so that
> he may travel' ('they
> give him money for travelling' would be OK too I
> think.)

Dans xicuu ad sivi pera fi vizeud.
Give.3rd.pl.pres. money to him for that
visit.3rd.sg.pres.sbjct.


But ...para viajar
> él is flat out IIRC.  OTOH Carrajena may well have
> gone in other directions.
>

Well, C-a is VSO for one thing.

> > Do you think the addition of "to" marking the
> clause
> > boundary makes thing clearer, more confused or
> just
> > silly?
> >
> I don't think it helps one way or t'other...but it's
> up to you; as we say,
> it's your conlang.....:-))))
>

So it is, but thanks loads for the needed input.

Adam

Jin nifalud fistus todus idavi eseud adimpuudu ul isu fi aved niminchunadu pera ul Dju peu'l medju djul provedu cumvi dichid: «Iñi! Cunchepijid ed nadajid il virdjini ad junu  huiju, ed cuamajuns ad si il Emanueli fi sñivigad ul Dju simu noviscu.»

Machu 1:22-23

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