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AUXLANG  June 2005, Week 4

AUXLANG June 2005, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Auxlangs and Religion

From:

Thomas Alexander <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 26 Jun 2005 14:47:17 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (148 lines)

Kjell:
> From the material I read I had the impression that
> the early prophets of the Baha'i faith didn't know
> very much about the international languages. I
> suppose that they even tried to learn e.g.
> Esperanto but did not dedicate enough time to get
> any results. It should be possible to check this.

The progression was as follows.  First, ther was the
Bab.  He was not a prophet as such; I normally think
of him as the John the Baptist of the Baha'i faith.
Beyond that, I don't know anything about him. The
founder of the Faith was Baha'u'llah. He is considered
to be a prophet equal to Moses, Jesus (who is not
considered to be the Son of God in the Christian
sense), Mohamed, Buddha, and so on.  His place was
taken over by his son, 'Abdu'l-Bahá.  The third
prophet was Shoghi Effendi.  Finally, this role was
taken over by a group called the International House
of Justice.  So, in total, counting the House of
Justice, there have been four prophets.  All of them
have spoken in favor of the IAL idea, but only some
of them spoke out in favor of Esperanto and only at
certain parts of their lives.

So, I'm not sure which you mean when you say the
"early" ones.  Baha'u'llah, to my knowledge, never
mentioned Esperanto by name, but he wrote in 1891
that a new language and script have been invented.
We can only guess whether he knew about Esperanto and
Volapük.  The other three all mention Esperanto by
name - becoming increasingly unsupportive as it
becomes more and more clear that the Fina Venko is
not going to happen tomorrow.

> My conclusion was that "these auxiliary languages
> supporters try to advertise their languages, but
> (putting it mildly) the just time hasn't come yet).

I've encountered this idea (that the time has not
yet come) - although one difference might be that
I've been invited back several times to "advertise"
my language.  One response I've heard is that the
call was made to the *governments* to select a
language, and not for any one group to take this
upon themselves.  At my last presentation, a very
nice man spoke up and said that the way to introduce
a language is to have children learn it - all in one
generation.  Thus, we adults outside the government
are freed of all responsibility for doing anthing
about the language problem, beyond expressing the
opinion that we think something should be done.

Compare this to what 'Abdu'l-Bahá wrote on the
subject - that believers should get involved and
"associate" with Esperantists, that effort invested
in promoting Esperanto is effort well spent, and
that Esperanto will serve as the foundation for a
final, official form which will be accepted by all
nations (see the second sentence of the Fundamento).

By the way, it seems I understood what you meant by
"decision structures" after all.  The equality of
laity and clergy (or however they word it) is one
of the 10 or 15 basic principles of the Baha'i Faith
(sort of the Baha'i 10 commandments) -- right up
there with equality of men and women, equality of
the races, and support for an international language.

> Many years ago I met a Swedish Baha'i. This was long
> before I knew of any Iranian Baha'is in my country,
> and the impression I got from the Baha'i faith then
> was that it could well have been any Western Faith.
> It was only when I met this Swedish Interlingua
> supporter and read a couple of books about the
> Baha'i faith that I realized the very strong
> influence that its roots in Iran had. And how
> similar the narrative, the story, was to what I
> have heard when talking to Moslem about the early
> history of Islam etc.

I've had similar thoughts and experiences, and I have
wondered how much this is a reflection of my own
prejudices.

> From the description I got from the Baha'is here,
> you may very well drink wine etc. if you choose to
> do so, but you should do so with moderation.

I find this in "La Bahaa Kredo" (an Esperanto
translation of a well known Baha'i document):

 "La uzo de alkoholajxoj kaj narkotajxoj estas
 evitata, escepte se presribite pro medicinaj
 kialoj, cxar tiuj substancoj fine mortigas la
 menson."

> > Even more difficult to reconcile, though, is
> > the thought that Persian or Arabic (or English)
> > should be "THE" language, given that the first
> > prophet said that *all* children in the world
> > would be learning two languages (this rules out
> > any language currently in use as a primary
> > language) and that his son went into some
> > detail about how the IAL would be created (it
> > will be easy to learn, contain words from many
> > different languages, and so forth.)
>
> I think you may be right about this. I cannot
> free myself from the idea that they had not
> given much thought to the matter.

I agree -- in many cases, at least.  I see it as
my duty here to try to keep the question in the
foreground and encourage them to give more thought
to the matter.  On the other hand, I'm equally amazed
that the IAL idea is listed among so many heavy
issues as the *main* principles of the Faith.  That
is, I can see how it might receive less attention
than various race or gender issues.

I also think that my experience as a Fundamentalist
Christian makes it difficult for me to approach the
Baha'i scriptures in the same way that the believers
do.  In my mind, God shouldn't say one minute that
Esperanto will have success and then be accepted in
a modified form (consistent with the Fundamento) and
then say the next minute that Esperanto "might not
be" the one language which will be chosen.  Then
again, what's a small inconsistency when one claims
that the writings of all the religions in the world
all speak about the same God?

In the end, more "thought to he matter" can only be
good for our cause.

Amike salutas,
Thomas/Tomaso ALEXANDER.
www.NightinGael.Net
---Anything below this line is not from Thomas ---


		
__________________________________ 
Discover Yahoo! 
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February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
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July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
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May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 1
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February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
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December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
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September 2000, Week 1
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August 2000, Week 1
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July 2000, Week 1
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June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
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January 2000, Week 3
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January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
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February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
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January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
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October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
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July 1998, Week 3
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July 1998, Week 1
June 1998, Week 5
June 1998, Week 4
June 1998, Week 3
June 1998, Week 2
June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
May 1998, Week 2
May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 5
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
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February 1998, Week 1
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January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
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January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
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December 1997, Week 1
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November 1997, Week 3
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November 1997, Week 1
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May 1997, Week 3
May 1997, Week 2
May 1997, Week 1
April 1997, Week 5
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April 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 2
April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 5
February 1997, Week 4
February 1997, Week 3
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February 1997, Week 1

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