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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  June 2005, Week 4

CONLANG June 2005, Week 4

Subject:

Re: THEORY: Kinds of Plurals, and Methods of Indicating Them

From:

tomhchappell <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:57:10 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (62 lines)

Hello, Chris, thanks for writing.
--- In [log in to unmask], Chris Bates 
<chris.maths_student@N...> wrote:
> Distributive in many languages typically implies (as the name 
suggests) 
> that the events (or entities) are distributed over space and/or 
time. 
> Many amerindian languages mark distributivity on the verb. 
Collectivity 
> implies that the events (or entities) are all in one place. I've 
mostly 
> heard of these terms with reference to events and verbal marking 
though, 
> and I can't say I'm familiar with nominal plural marking labelled 
> distributive or collective.

Thank you.  Can you give me the names of specific Amerindian 
languages that do this, or specific authors or books that discuss 
them?

The distinction between "distributive" on the one hand,  
and "aggregate" or "collective" on the other hand, was apparently 
discussed by Frege, a predecessor of Cantor, Russel, and Whitehead.  
He apparently was particularly interested in distributive 
quantification versus "collective" (if that was the term he used) 
quantification.  Since you are a maths student, I am sure you are 
aware of this author and are familiar with the distinction he was 
making.  This distinction is logically independent of whether or not 
the many elements of the set in question are scattered or collected 
in space and/or time; the only question is whether or not they are 
semantically to be treated as a set or on an each-by-each basis, in 
the clause uttered.

(CHAT: BTW what maths do you study?  What is the highest degree you 
have attained?  Are you currently teaching or researching something? 
and if so what?)

{back on topic):
You seem to be saying that for most Amerindian natlangs 
semantic "distributive" is not likely to arise in the absence of 
spatial or temporal distribution.  That kind of thing is the sort of 
thing that does happen in natural languages, isn't it?  In my sample 
sentence, "two students gave three teachers four books", it is tough 
to imagine the maximally-distributive event(s) as occuring all at 
once in the same time and the same place.

I imagine that it makes sense for the distributive-vs.-collective (or 
distributive-vs-aggregate, or whatever the correct terminology is,) 
opposition to be marked on the verb as part of its agreement with the 
number of the argument, rather than as part of the number of the 
nominal (, in languages where it is marked anywhere at all).  
Grammatical "number", as marked on nominals and pronominals, is much 
simpler than actual numerals; it is probably going to skip this extra 
distinction.

But, is anyone aware of a language in which the distributive-vs.-
collective opposition of plurality is marked on the nominal?

----
Thanks for writing.
Tom H.C. in MI

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