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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  June 2005, Week 4

CONLANG June 2005, Week 4

Subject:

Re: THEORY: Kinds of Plurals, and Methods of Indicating Them

From:

tomhchappell <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:27:43 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (89 lines)

Hello, Chris, and thanks for writing.

[WHAT DISTRIBUTIVITY MEANS]
Greville Corbett's "NUMBER" gives Amerindian-language examples 
where "distributive" means different /types/; this is another 
possibility besides different times and/or different places.

[SPECIFIC AMERINDIAN LANGUAGES]
I used my Google-Print account to look at some of the pages of 
Greville Corbett's "NUMBER" that discuss distributives and 
collectives.  Like you, he mentions mostly the Amerindian languages; 
and he gives specific examples.  Of course I can't print them off; I 
have to wait until my library locates an out-of-state university that 
is willing to loan us their copy.

[DISTRIBUTIVE/COLLECTIVE NOMINAL? OR MARKED ON VERB?]
In the appropriate chapter (approximately pages 110-120), Corbett 
discusses /only/ /NOMINAL/ marking of Distributive vs. Collective.  
But he does mention the existence of Verbal markings; perhaps he 
takes it up later in the book, or elsewhere.  (Obviously, /you/ have 
run across /someone's/ treatment of it.)

[HOW THIS TOPIC CAME UP]
In a personal e-mail "trialog" with Ray Brown and Joseph Bridwell, I 
mentioned a situation in which a person holds each member of a set of 
beliefs in high confidence, but seriously doubts that every last one 
of them can be true.  As an example; suppose I have a booklet from 
the U.S. Government containing 10,000 statements, and I am 99.95% 
confident that each one of them is true.  Distributively, then, I 
have high confidence that all of them are true.  But, there is a 
quite low probability that not even one of the 10,000 statements is 
false.  Collectively, then, I seriously doubt that all of them are 
true.

[PARALLELS WITH OMEGA-CONSISTENCY]
It struck me that if a predicate P is provably distributively-false 
for all natural numbers, but provably not collectively-false, then 
this is just exactly omega-inconsistency.

A model of "arithmetic" (number theory) is "omega-consistent" if 
there is no predicate P for which it is possible to prove "for some n 
P(n)" while, at the same time, it is possible to prove for each 
particular natural number k, "not P(k)".  A model that is not omega-
consistent is omega-inconsistent (bet that caught everyone by 
surprise!).

What really is surprising, is that, there are plenty of consistent 
models that are omega-inconsistent.

(A model is "consistent" if there is no statement q for which it is 
possible to prove both "q" and "not q".)

-----

Thanks for writing, everyone.  Any and all replies will be welcomed 
and read.

Thanks for writing, Chris.

Looking forward to reading your next post,

Tom H.C. in MI.

 --- In [log in to unmask], Chris Bates 
> <chris.maths_student@N...> wrote:
> Distributive in many languages typically implies (as the name 
suggests) 
> that the events (or entities) are distributed over space and/or 
time. 
> Many amerindian languages mark distributivity on the verb. 
Collectivity 
> implies that the events (or entities) are all in one place. I've 
mostly 
> heard of these terms with reference to events and verbal marking 
though, 
> and I can't say I'm familiar with nominal plural marking labelled 
> distributive or collective.
> 
> > Hello, the list.
> >
> > I have been looking around on Google for a little while, and have
> > found a few different terms used to indicate different kinds of
> > plurals.
> > Among these terms are "distributive plural", "aggregate
> > plural", "collective plural", "cumulative plural", and others, not
> > all of which I understand, and some of which don't seem to be
> > distinct, as far as I can tell, although the writers seem to think
> > they may be.

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