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AUXLANG  August 2005, Week 2

AUXLANG August 2005, Week 2

Subject:

Re: "Nam" es latino classic (era: Sample text in Interlingua)

From:

Thomas Alexander <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 13 Aug 2005 04:43:13 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (145 lines)

Kjell skribis:

> In qual lingua vivente existe le parola "tosto"?

En la itala.  Tion mi ne tuj sciis de mi mem
(malgraux tio, ke mi ja lernis la italan), sed mi
devis kontroli en la Etimologia Vortaro de Esperanto
(utila ankaux por Interlinguanoj.)  Mi supozas, tamen,
ke vi ne pretendas ke "tosto" ne ekzistas en moderna
lingvo, sed simple ke la fontlingvo de tiu esprimo ne
estas memevidente por persono kiu ne jam konas gxin.

> On lo comprende, sed "mox" ha le avantage de exister
> in iste forma in un dictionario, e si on sape que
> isto es latino on pote mox trovar le signification.

Fakte, mi tre dubas cxu mi komprenis "tosto" kiam mi
komencis kompreni Interlinguon. Mi skribis en Interlng
en la jaro 2003 ke mi nur tiam lernis la vorton
"tosto", kaj ke mi jam konis la vorton "mox."

Iu iam skribis al mi (plej versxajne, Lord Vulaik) ke
gravis al Gode ke oni povu kompreni Interlinguon sen
helpo de interlingua vortaro.  Tial li preferis la
partikulojn latinajn.  Fakte, mi miras kiel bone ja
eblas kompreni vortojn el Interlinguo kun nur angla-
lingva vortaro.

Ekzemple, el la tri cititaj linioj supre, mi tiris
kelkajn vortojn.  Ni supozu ke nova interlinguano jam
ricevis flugfolion kun la vortoj "on, lo, ha, de, le,
k.t.p. kaj volas kompreni la tekston de Kjell.  Li
rigardas en angla-lingva vortaro por trovi la signifon
de sape, pote, kaj trovar.

Li trovos:
  sape - many words starting with sape- or sapi-.
         Most have to do with wisdom and are linked
         with the Latin verb "sapere" which in my
         dictionary is listed as "to have good taste."
  pote - Two words start with pote- and are not
         related.  The rest are related to "potential"
         and are listed as descendents of the Latin
         word "posse" - to be able.
  trovar - Only two words start with trov- TROVE and
         TROVER.  The connection to the Old French
         word meaning "to find" is clearly listed.

Sercxante la aliajn vortojn (sed, mox, iste, isto),
oni povas "traduki" jene:

  One comprends (comprehends?) it but "mox" has the
  advantage of existing in this form in a dictionary,
  and if one has-good-taste/wisdom [que?] this is
  Latin, one is able soon to find the signification.

(Mi supozas, ke "que" devus esti en la menciita
flugfolio, cxar ne eblas kompreni gxin nur de vortaroj
angla kaj latina.)

Du cxefaj demandoj restas ... unue, cxu ekzistas tiaj
homoj, al kiuj oni povas instrui tiun metodon de
vortokontrolado, sen ke ili volus acxeti vortaron de
Interlingua?  Due, konsidere ke per la reto nun eblas
tre facile trovi vortaron de Interlingua, cxu plu
gravas tiu prefero de Gode?  Tio estas, cxu nun
pli gravas ke la vortoj estu troveblaj in vortaro de
Interlinguo ol sen vortaro de Interlinguo?

Out of curiosity, I decided to try the same thing with
a few lines of Esperanto taken from the above.  If we
assume that our hypothetical student of Esperanto
already knows all two letter words, the correlatives,
and knows enough try respelling K as C while looking
for words in the English and Latin dictionaries, we
then have:

   Facte, mi tre dubas cu mi comprenis "tosto" kiam
   mi comencis compreni Interlinguon. Mi scribis en
   Interlng en la jaro 2003 ke mi nur tiam lernis
   la vorton "tosto", kaj ke mi jam konis la vorton
   "mox."

Words to be checked are: fact-, tre, dub-, compren-,
comenc- scrib-, jar-, nur, lern-, vort-, kaj, jam,
and con-.  Fact, compren, and comenc seem transparent
enough. One could argue that "tre" is also transparent
to English speakers.  I recall, for example, that not
so many years ago it was very cool to say "tres cool".
Dub-, scrib-, and jam are easily found in the various
dictionaries.  It might be too much to ask the student
to allow contexted to guide him to making the
connection between KNOw and KONi, but let's ask it
anyway.  If so, then j(e)ar, le(a)rn-, and [w]or[d]
should be a snap.  That leaves "nur" and "kaj", which
we'll sneak onto the list of two-letter words (just
as we did for "que" in Interlingua.)

Oh well, so much for that.  In a different note in
the same thread, Kjell wrote:

> Le parentheses recte

Bele.  Finfine jen vorto en interlinguo por la
kvadrataj krampoj!  Dankon.  :-)

> Plure linguas auxiliar ha "ci" (chi) pro "here, on
> this side) que ben es relationate con le prefixo
> "cis-" que nos trova in anglese in parolas como
> "cislunar" etc.

Interese.  Mi devos komenci uzi tiun prefikson en la
angla.  "Honey, I'm not done mowing the cisdomal part
of the lawn yet!"

> Tante que on ha "alterne", "interne", "internal" on
> poterea imaginar "citerne" que optimo se traduce per
> le esperantic "chi-tiea".

Oni povas, sed tio postulas bonan imagopovon.  :-)

> Un lingua auxiliar debe adjutar in le comprension de
> altere linguas in alcun maniera, si le lingua non ha
> iste capacitate, on pote tanto ben oblidar lo e
> occupar se con altere cosas...

Mi plejparte samopinias.  Mi sxatus auxdi reagon de
Don Harlow, kiu asertis ke la cxefa (sed eble ne la
sola?) celo de helplingvo estas esti helplingvo ...
ankaux de Anthony Alexander, kiu ne nepre vidas la
neceson ke helplingvo estu tuj utila por ebligi la
plipostan "venkon" de la lingvo.  Li vidas ke unue
venu la fina venko, kaj poste la lingvo.  Se okazus
tiel, tiam ne nepre valorus via aserto, cxu ne?

Amike salutas,
Thomas/Tomaso ALEXANDER.
www.NightinGael.Net
---Anything below this line is not from Thomas ---

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January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
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August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
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July 2003, Week 3
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July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
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May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
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March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
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July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
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April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
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March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 1
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February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
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November 1999, Week 3
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November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
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August 1999, Week 3
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August 1999, Week 1
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July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
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June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
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October 1998, Week 5
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October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
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July 1998, Week 1
June 1998, Week 5
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June 1998, Week 3
June 1998, Week 2
June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
May 1998, Week 2
May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 5
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
December 1997, Week 2
December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 5
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
November 1997, Week 2
November 1997, Week 1
October 1997, Week 5
October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
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October 1997, Week 1
September 1997, Week 5
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September 1997, Week 1
August 1997, Week 5
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July 1997, Week 5
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July 1997, Week 1
June 1997, Week 5
June 1997, Week 4
June 1997, Week 3
June 1997, Week 2
June 1997, Week 1
May 1997, Week 5
May 1997, Week 4
May 1997, Week 3
May 1997, Week 2
May 1997, Week 1
April 1997, Week 5
April 1997, Week 4
April 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 2
April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 5
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February 1997, Week 3
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February 1997, Week 1

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