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AUXLANG  August 2005, Week 3

AUXLANG August 2005, Week 3

Subject:

Re: World Language.

From:

Kjell Rehnstrom <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:51:25 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (147 lines)

Jim Vyse wrote:

>   I will now start with a little background information [build-up] , 
> and then lay-it-on-you.[Note:- If you cannot destroy my argument 
> within a week it therefore has a chance of success - if it lasts for a 
> month or more, then you'll have to take it seriously]
>  
> Now for what you do know with a slightly different slant on it.
>  
> Human beings, a very long time ago, first communicated with each other 
> in sound by a series of GRUNTS. ( The very first Universal language). 
> The language was simple, and probably went something like this 1 grunt 
> = water;2 grunts = food; etc and a whole series of grunts = you know 
> what! That is called politely Reproduction. This is the language of 
> the TRIBE and is very important to the tribe, so important that OUR 
> brain made a special part, on the brain-stem, central within the brain 
> - it communicates with the left & right hemisheres - but it stands 
> alone, independent of any other part. Its sole purpose is to learn ONE 
> language, the SPOKEN language of the tribe. [Writing came much, much 
> later - in fact very recently - and is handled by the right hemisphere 
> of the brain].

Hmm. Most, if not all tribal languages we know about to-day (and therein 
included those that we may know through historical studies etc. ) are 
often very complicated. Homo sapiens, we, have been able to talk for a 
very long time and the primitive stages of language is - as far as I 
know - lost in prehistoric darkness.

It seams that languages are getting more simple as humans with different 
backgrounds begin to interact. Take pidgins and creoles for a starter. 
So those grunts and sounds we can forget for the moment.

>  
> Now how many of you like to do anagrams in your own language. Anagrams 
> are jumbled up letters [ I'm NOT talking down to anyone here - If you 
> understand about anagrams just shout YES, and I'll skip this bit. 
> Don't hear anything], that you must make a proper word or phrase from 
> - have you thought what operations you make to achieve the correct 
> result. Well you use your right hemisphere the most (however some say 
> it the left hemisphere since it controls logic and reason - I 
> disagree) and as you manipulate the letters you make "silent sounds" 
> of the letter groups and suddenly a combination of letters 
> "leap-of-the-page OR similar in you mind(clever dick). This is that 
> specal-brain-part that recognised the "silent-sound".
> Now do another anagram in a learnt language and you will see the 
> difference for yourself - it takes much longer to do.
>  
> Which brings me to my statement.[You have been very patient]
>  
> I AM ENGLISH, I THINK IN ENGLISH, I SPEAK AND UNDERSTAND IN ENGLISH.
>  
> This is the language of MY tribe.
>  
> So what, you say, that is not a solution - BUT IT IS, look closer. Try 
> it this way:-
>  
> i AM english, i THINK-SPEAK english, but I say an equivalent ILC word.
>  
>                                  ILC = International Language Code.

This is not how it logically works. When I now am writing in English I 
don't think in Swedish, I think in what I imagine to be English. If I 
were to translate every sentence from Swedish into English I would not 
be ready til monday! Learning a language is just about that, 
authomatizing (if that is the right word) the process of handling 
lexicon and grammar in the language you leran. Imagine that you have to 
read a text in a language that you don't know at all. Then you have to 
get a dictionary and a grammar book in order to understand - and you 
will most probably try to find a person who can translate the text for 
you.  

> My listener, hears groups of ILC words and that special-brain-part 
> transforms the word-order to suit HIS TRIBEs' speech patterns and 
> comprehension is complete.
> The reverse is true when he responds to me. If an ambiguity or 
> mis-communication happens then the onus is with the speaker to re-phrase.

This is not how it works. As well as you can learn to speak different 
dialects you can learn to speak different languages. And it is not sure 
that you would find translating from one dialect into another very easy! :-)

>  This language is for any person who can speak his or her own 
> tongue(language of their tribe). That is 100% - That is EVERYONE 
> (excluding children of course).
> Dare I say it, even I , a non-linguist, can learn and speak it quite 
> easily.

Remember all the years and all the lessens you have been struggling with 
English... Being exposed to it every day 24 h/day. And this will help 
you when you want to learn other languages, at least as long as they are 
Western ones. 'Caus you have already done a good deal of the work 
necessary! Trying to learn e.g. Arabic will be harder, as you will have 
to familiarize yourself with quite another way of thinking and arange 
your speach and perception... And quite another grammar!

> The ILC word set, I think (You can say different, because at the end 
> of the ulimate discussion, and if its still a viable proposition YOU 
> have the job of creating it - I'm NOT qualified!), should be Esperanto 
> based, since I like the way words are made-up. Dont forget this is a 
> SPOKEN language NOT a written one and remember speech came first in 
> our evolution, written words next and LAST of all grammer. Do not 
> hold-up speaking this language just becasue you have not yet learnt to 
> write it down or analize it.It's the gra

You've got a point there. Auxiliary languages have generally not gotten 
any ungrammatical form, or how I should put it. As I see it Interlingua 
and Occidental/interlingue do have such beginners ungrammatical forms, 
but I may be wrong here.

The proponents of the auxiliary langauges perhaps overstress grammatical 
correctness, but that is not the writing's fault but rather a bad habit 
of overstressing grammar. In fact writing is helpung us a good deal in 
learning languages, as is phonetics. If we didn't have that, language 
learning would be much more difficult.

> mmatical accuracy that is stopping Esperanto & Ido from becoming a 
> World language.

Both yes and no.

> Thats it folks. Now sharpen-up those cyber-pencils (red ones are good) 
> and tear my argument to shreds - Well Thomas!(IF YOU CAN - you can be 
> a rude as you like)

The idea is wrong because there is a too small group of Esperanto, Ido 
speakers.  That is to say, there are not enough people to imitate 
sponatanously.

With Interlingua and Occidental/interlingue it is a somewhat other 
thing. I'll limit myself to Interlingua which I know best. This language 
can be described as a variant of a potentially still living medieval 
Latin, and thus in a way yet another modernr dialect of Latin, like even 
French, Italian and Spanish which are, as you well know languages as 
they have got armies and navies of their own! :-)

So tu ha le possibilitate posar alcun -o e -ar a anglese vocabulos. Iste 
systema possibilisa un imitation! Certenmente non es le correctissime 
interlingua ma (como in musical italiano - allegro ma non troppo) le 
linguage functiona!

Just something for you to put your teeth in.

Linguistically yours


Kjell R

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